1994.04.26 - The Making Of Estranged: Part IV Of The Trilogy

Transcript:
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Axl: November Rain is a song about not wanting to be in a state of having to deal with unrequited love. Estranged is acknowledging it, and being there, and having to figure out what the fuck to do. It’s like being catapulted out into the universe and having no choice about it; and having to figure out what the fuck are you gonna do, because the things you wanted and worked for just cannot happen, and there’s nothing you can fucking do about it.

[Introduction titles]

Axl: I wrote the song basically about who I am and how I feel, and the breakup of my marriage with Erin and how I didn’t want it to die. But I also apply it to a lot of other situations, or friendships, or family things, where you knew it had to end.

[Footage from the filming of the video]

Axl: I actually had a dream of the piano in this song. There’s another person I know that plays piano, and they’re really good and they make jokes out of it, and they sit there and crack jokes, and play all over the piano like a double time, double speed, and make jokes. And I was wondering why they never took that seriously and somehow I started having a dream about this song I could write for this person to play; and I woke up, and I went, “Well, I may go try and start playing that.” And I went and started playing it, and realized I was on to something, and I felt the emotions it was bringing out of me. I started actually writing the words to it as I started the playing of it.

[Clip from the video]

Slash: I heard the piano. I heard it over and over, and over and over again. And Axl would sing it, so the first day that the band rehearsed it, it was the first thing that came to my mind. So when we did the takes, it was all first take. So I think it was whatever the piano inspired. It just came out naturally.  

[Clip from the video]

Axl: But when we started to record the song, I brought it in, to the band, and no one really quite had a concept of what it was or what we were gonna do with this thing, and it was a very long piece with a lot of changes. So it was really exciting to start working on it and finding all the parts, and the band trying to figure out what to do with the parts. It was – everybody was very inspired.

Duff: It took a long time, and maybe we were a little bit afraid of the song.  

Matt: When we did this stuff, I was, “Hmm, this is really different” for Guns N’ Roses, in the same way I feel about November Rain. These two songs really are similar, in the fact that they’re a really emotional release on Axl’s part.

Dizzy: The songs that he’s written are great. They’re classic tunes to me. He’s just – you know, his style is very strange. It’s very different, which makes it that much cooler but also that much difficult to, like, learn, to figure out.

Duff: It took us a long time to actually make a song out of it, because piano - the way Axl brings something or plays something on the piano, then how Slash and myself at the time kind of decipher it into guitar language. You know, it’s two different languages. So with piano you go soft and hard within a second, and with guitars you’ve got to be more subtle and –

Slash: I feel like it was a significant answer to what the piano was doing. I really do. And even when we were getting the recording together and all that kind of stuff, it was like I had a definite idea. There was no notes, no changing notes. That was the original idea and it was the best one.

Axl: He just took the song very seriously, and the song means a lot to me, and certain things he did with the guitar he had to work on to do, you know, and really put himself in the right space to find the right guitar parts.

Dizzy: The first time I heard the song itself was at rehearsal, when Slash leaked out that guitar riff. I was like, “Wow!” like blown away. I mean, I knew right then and there that this is classic tune.    

Slash: Afterwards, when it was done and recorded, I was like, “Ax, okay, I got to get credit on this for the guitar stuff” (laughs), because it was like a big part that went on top of what he’d already wrote. I was pretty proud of it, because it’s hard to write to somebody else’s music.

Axl: I really was sincere about thanking him for doing that, and the work that he did on this song is really special and really special to me; and I was very appreciative of him doing that.

Gilby: When I first heard the song, the first thing that I thought was cool about Slash’s guitar playing [was that] it was just so – it’s real unusual and it’s something new. It’s so hard to, like, reinvent rock ‘n’ roll guitar and stuff, and when I heard it I was like, how the hell you get the guitar to feedback for a 12 minute song or however long it is (laughs). I thought it was unbelievable. And then, when I read the liner notes, and Ax put the “thanks” to him and stuff, I thought that was cool.

[Footage from the filming of the first scene (the “raid” at Axl’s mansion)]

Axl: I don’t necessarily know of anyone who’s made a video like this - you know, showing their own emotional destruction and their process of transcending that. That’s another thing about this video; it’s also communication with Dylan. It’s someone I’m not allowed to communicate with, and someone who feels that I abandoned him, and I didn’t. I was told one thing and shown another, and Dylan is robbed of certain things that he likes, and I am also, and just trying to transcend that and deal with that, and so making a video of what’s really going on and trying to show it. It was really wild when we filmed that scene, because in this room there’s a shelf. Ever since Dylan moved out of the house, I’ve always pictured myself sitting on that shelf just looking at his room. When it came time to film that scene, I went up to sit on the shelf, they got the SWAT teams breaking in and everything, and I’m kind of oblivious to this whole thing - that’s what I was supposed to be doing. And I ended up just laying down, and going to sleep and having the most peaceful sleep, because I really needed to do that for myself, and I really needed to be there, and I really needed to be in his room. And, like, it was a really strange way for me to spend time with Dylan in my own mind, that I really needed to do it for myself and I hadn’t taken the time or found the time and the right place; and it happened on film. But it meant a lot to me, and it’s weird. It was like, I don’t know how long I was asleep; it was maybe an hour, and it felt like five hours. I went to bed right afterwards, but I had a real heavy sense of peace that I really liked.

[Live footage from Munich, Germany, June 1993 – Crowd chanting]

Axl (onstage in Munich): People got a rhythm and shit, yeah. This next song is a song that when we go back to L.A. we will be filming a video for. It’ll be out in about a month or so. This is called Estranged.

Matt: When we did this live footage we were somewhere in Germany. That was a real gig, you know. It’s no bullshit, it was a big show out there in Germany. And then we went down to Long Beach Arena, and rent out the entire arena and basically set up the entire staging again, and they got closer shots which is hard to control in a live situation.

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes at the Long Beach Arena, California]

Axl: On stage I’m communicating the song to the crowd, and also just every situation in my life that relates to any of the words in the song and going through my head at that particular time.

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes]

Dizzy: It’s quite a challenge to play it live. It took me a while to learn it, but it’s a great song live, I think. Unless you’re in Utah; they don’t get it there for some reason – just kidding.

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes]

Matt: We didn’t do it a lot live. We did it earlier on, when Izzy was in the band (?). And then all of a sudden we stopped doing it for a while.

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes]

Axl: It’s an intense song to do, because it’s a battle through things, and it’s a battle that it’s not necessarily over yet. It’s still in a period of, like, “will he transcend this or not.”

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes]

Gilby: Playing it live isn’t that much fun. I mean, it really isn’t. It’s a really good song to listen to and everything, but for, like, a musician to play – I mean, I stop and start a lot in it, just for the part that I play in it, and I really don’t play that much, just a couple of power chords. There’s parts that really get you going and stuff, you get into it, you go to the front of the stage or something, and then you gotta stop and I gotta take a rest for about two minutes (laughs).

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes]

Axl: I don’t play piano that often - or hadn’t for the last couple of years, only on stage. I’m starting to now that we’re done touring. I don’t even know how to play the song anymore. Dizzy plays it.

Dizzy: I didn’t play on it in the studio - you know, it’s pretty much Axl’s tune - but I was there when it was being recorded. I do play it live, though.

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes]

Axl: The middle change, kind of the piano solo area that when we’re on stage I say, “Ladies and gentlemen, Dizzy Read,” that was really intense, but just kept growing and flowing.

Dizzy: When I had to learn it, I was, like, really mind-blown. I tried to chart it out – I never do that – and I actually had the song taped to the front of my piano - the chords, right? You know, because I was really insecure about playing it, because it’s all of a sudden –

Axl (on stage in Munich): On the piano, Mr. Dizzy Reed.

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes]

Matt: A lot of the guys had problems with some of the chords and stuff (laughs).

Gilby: It’s always scary, because even though we all know the song and stuff, it’s like, if one person fucks up, we throw everybody off.

Dizzy: And he needs to go through this little routine, like, “Please, get me through Estranged without making a mistake,” right? (laughs)

Gilby: It’s just one of those songs that I just never really got, and we’re playing it, and both me and Duff are just doing the worst job. It’s like, I’m trying to watch Duff’s hands, Duff is watching my hands, and neither one of us were playing it right.

Dizzy: I’d be like, “Nobody noticed it.” Wrong. Slash in the dressing room: “What happened?”

Gilby: And he’s just, like, screamed at us, “Get it together, man!” (laughs), and you guys were all going, “Wow!” (laughs) It was really that bad, huh? But we got it together pretty quick. But it was just one of those things. We just sounded shit (laughs).

Duff: Yeah, Gilby’s looked at me and I’ve looked at Gilby a few times like, “Okay, what’s up next?”

[Footage from the filming of the live scenes - Dialogues]

Andy Morahan: I’ve decided on the Making of Estranged that I’m gonna be very polite and not swear at all and be really nice to the documentary camera crew. Isn’t that a change?

[Footage from TV news report:

Reporter: The bad boys of rock ‘n’ roll, Guns N’ Roses, have closed off one of Hollywood’s main streets this evening to make a music video]

[Footage from the filming of Slash’s first solo scene on Sunset Strip]

Slash: We’re doing this Estranged concept, and I felt with the town that I grew up in, where  – I don’t know, this where I used to hang out, so it’s coming back to it where it’s a completely different deal, and the environment is completely different and the people treat you differently. So I’m just going to be doing a guitar solo through a group of – you know, the average Sunset hangout people, and I’m just going through and they’re totally oblivious to me. It’s very moody and I’m just gonna be playing the sad solo.  

[Footage from the filming of Slash’s first solo scene on Sunset Strip - Dialogues]

Andy Morahan: That’s where we’re doing Slash’s guitar solo, and we’re setting a whole shot where Slash is gonna be playing the solo as if he’s floating down the Strip; so he’s floating down the Rainbow and keeps going down the Strip, right down to the Whiskey. So it’s kind of like a mellow, dreamy, fantasy kind of sequence.

[Footage from the filming of Slash’s first solo scene on Sunset Strip – Dialogues]

Slash: This is gonna look really cool when it’s done.

[Footage from the filming of Slash’s first solo scene on Sunset Strip – Dialogues]

Andy Morahan: When he told me that idea, I thought that we’ll show up (?) on Sunset (?) and he’s going, “No, I gotta fly down there.” And I don’t think I actually realized till when he did it what a cool idea it was. I mean, it was way, way out there.

[Clip from the video - Footage from the filming of the scenes on Sunset Strip - Dialogues]

Axl (talking to Robert John and someone else): Did you hear about Gilby getting asked - the talent scouts found him in some biker bar. Gilby was in a biker bar, and they were like, “You guys would be great for extras in the Guns N’ Roses video.” And he was like, “I think I already got asked about that.”

(Laughter)

Teddy Andreadis: Well, I’m the eater. I’m the official guy who eats. Look, there’s a piece of parsley right here.

[Footage from the filming of the scenes on Sunset Strip - Dialogues]

Robert John: I’m into a lot of fucking stress, because I gotta do an album shoot, and I don’t know what the fuck I’m gonna do, because these two [Axl and Slash] have two different ideas.

Slash: Um, pumpkins... Well, I don’t know.

Axl: In quotes, “The Spaghetti Incident”, with a question mark. Yeah.

[Footage from the filming Axl’s scene on Sunset Strip]

Axl: The dolphins was to assimilate a state of peace or state of grace. It was not originally intended, but in the next scene I will be drowned and go to heaven; and I really didn’t want to shoot a heaven scene.

Andy Morahan: The dolphins were a kind of metaphor for the idea of playing with the joke of - he had the opportunity to be saved three times.

[Footage from the filming of the scene in the tank with Axl and the dolphins, San Diego, California]

Axl: The music in the song always reminded us of whales at that particular point, and so dolphins showed up and it kind of brings all that together.

[Clip from the video]

Andy Morahan: He wastes every opportunity and rejects every opportunity to be saved, and, of course, then he’s not saved, because he’s asking God to save him, and God said, “Well, you had three opportunities.” And the idea then was that you think it’s all over, it’s death, and he sinks underneath, but finds this new heaven in the abyss. It’s a kind of a rebirth image, to me; in this way he finds his nirvana, his heavenly kind of state of grace.

[Footage from the filming of the scene with Axl and the dolphins]

Del James: At the end of the November Rain video, it says, “Based on the short story ‘Without You’ by Del James” - and that would be me. A lot of people have asked where’s the story, how did she die, and this and that. What we were going to attempt to do was let people know what her fate was in this video -

Axl: - where we had intended to make the sequel or the follow-up and the conclusion of November Rain. Things changed, plans changed.

Andy Morahan: You know, first there was that pressure to come up with part three of the trilogy, and why did Steph die; which was, you know, the big question. So that was the initial pressure and, obviously, the sort of stuff that Axl was going for at the time; which, actually, pushed us away from there.

Axl: There was an evolving that took place that’s very hard to rise to, to transcend the story that we had and that we intended. But I’ve kind of been put in a situation where that’s what was necessary to make the right video.

Andy Morahan: So we kind of went way over somewhere else, and tried this thing and that thing, just in terms of discussion and stuff. And then Axl suddenly got – you know, suddenly saw a way through in terms of the conceptual way of dealing with it for himself. So that’s how Estranged developed.

Del James: The cool thing – you know, if it is cool for me personally – is now people have to read my book, which should be out sometime in the middle of 1994, and that’s “The Language Of Fear.” So, like, for those people that are still curious as to how the chick died – you know, we get a lot of letters about that – that’s really the only way, because I ain’t telling.

[Footage from the filming of the scene with Axl and the dolphins]

John Reese: What are we waiting for? I know what you want me to say. You want me to say we’re waiting on Axl, but I’m not gonna say that, because we’re not waiting on Axl. Only a fool would look into this lens and say we’re waiting on Axl, because we’re not. So don’t think that we are. [Pause] We are.

[Footage from the filming of the scene on the tanker in Corpus Christi, Texas]

Crew member: We’re off the coast of Texas with the super tanker. We have a myriad of other boats, and this boat we’re rocking around on right now. 25% of the crew are seasick and the other 75% wish they were. And later on today Axl’s gonna die.

Matt: Last week I played a helicopter rescue guy (laughs); and I attempted to save Axl in the middle of an ocean kind of setting. We actually went into this huge soundstage, where there was this really big, huge, gigantic tank that had a wave machine that created waves and flopped Axl right in the middle of this wave (?).

[Footage from the filming of the scene in the tank with the dolphins – Dialogues - Footage from the filming of the scene on the tanker in Corpus Christi, Texas]

Gilby: I was just informed, moments ago, that I’m gonna throw a thing, a little lifesaver thing off a ship (laughs). I don’t know. We don’t really act, you know (laughs). It’s like, they just kind of give us direction and we just kind of do it. I think if we, like, try to do any kind of acting it looks really stupid, because we’re not very good at it.

[Footage after the filming of the scene with the helicopter]

John Reese: Is that a real helicopter you were just in?

Matt: As far as you know.

John Reese: As far as you know. You viewers out there, as far as you know, that was a real helicopter.

Matt: To the public, that’s what we want it to look. Right, John?

John Reese: Pretty amazing, Matt.

Matt: You know, before I joined Guns N’ Roses, I was actually a helicopter pilot.

John Reese: You know I heard that.

Matt: Yeah (laughs). And I’ve actually gone to different countries and brought, like, a mercenary -

John Reese: Liar. Anyway –

Matt: (Laughs)

John Reese: He’s lying.

Matt: A soldier of fortune going, you know, to save some lives.

John Reese: Cool, cool. I did not know that about you.

Matt: Yeah. I made the big bucks there. A lot bigger than GN’R.

John Reese: Why be a drummer in Guns N’ Roses when you could go be a mercenary?

Duff: My part was really – I don’t know if it really came across in the video; to me it does, but probably people don’t know really what’s going on. It’s trying to save Axl in the middle of the ocean. And really, when he was in the water and I was in the boat, it was pretty scary. I mean, at one point I was like, “Shit, I should jump in and save his ass” (laughs). And a few times I fell into the water. The thing tipped over, you know.

[Footage from the filming of the scene on the tanker in Corpus Christi, Texas]

Axl: Another drowning scene that was very – I went into the water for about eight hours or so, and freezing water. And it’s more mentally exhausting than physically exhausting.

[Footage from the filming of the scene with Axl and the dolphins – Dialogues

Axl (laughing) That was fucking great. I was laughing so hard out there. I couldn’t keep a straight face.

...]

Andy Morahan: Seeing the guys battling with the elements down at this tank in San Diego, that was amazing. Oh yeah, I think this is gonna blow people away; I mean, completely, because I think it’s not like a narrative thing, it’s just a really surreal thing to people. I think this will probably be the most emotive video, actually – surprisingly - because I think there’ll be a lot of things that will touch chords in people that they haven’t expected.  

[Footage from the filming of the scene on the tanker in Corpus Christi, Texas]

Matt: I really, really tried to save him, but no lucky. He went down and we’re gonna replace him. We’ve heard Elvis is back in business, and he’s gonna sing lead for us now, so... He’s actually nearby, we’re gonna go find him in a little while, and he’s gonna do the gig from now on. Axl has drowned. I’m sorry (laughs).

[Clip from Don’t Cry video]

Axl: Don’t Cry, it’s like, personally I’m more proud of that than anything I’ve done as far as work-wise. November Rain, I’m really proud of and really happy with, but there was certain things that I wasn’t completely involved in, that I was in Don’t Cry and that made it more part of me. And, you know, November Rain was exactly what we wanted it to be, but it’s a more black-and-white video where you can tell what’s happening, while in Don’t Cry it was more surreal.

[Clip from November Rain video]

Axl: Those videos are hard to look at. I mean, the “Making of” those are hard to look at and hard to put out. [Making of] November Rain was very hard to put out. I mean, I was in the process of being fucked over when [Making of] November Rain was coming out, but I put it out anyway. But there was a period of time where I was going to buy the video from the band, which would have put me fucking flat broke at that time and probably owing money. I was gonna buy the video and put it in storage, and no one would’ve ever seen it. But I decided to rise to it and put it out.

[Clips from November Rain and Estranged videos]

Axl: You know, I’ve worked with Andy a lot, and there’s a lot of trust involved. And it’s ended up going way over the top and different scenes, but yet I know that, like, a feeling that we were trying to convey is still there.

Andy Morahan: I think, you know, people want something that’s larger than life, occasionally; and to play to those expectations of people, I think it’s a good thing. It’s all about what the band do. They go out and they try to make every performance they do different. They try to make records that excite people. And we try to make videos that excite people. I think that people stand back and sometimes get too introverted and self-serious, and not enjoying what it’s all about.

[Footage from the filming of Slash’s second solo (rising from the water) scene]

Crew member: He said it was heated.

Andy Morahan: It isn’t.

Slash: I thought it was in a tank and it was heated.

Andy Morahan: It is a tank, just too big.

Slash: This isn’t really my scene.

Andy Morahan: We’re sorry.

[...]

Slash: So I would have been here a lot earlier had I been a little bit more enthusiastic. But now that I get here, I wish I’d stayed home.

(Laughter)

[...]

Slash: Why do I need a double for? Are you guys shooting me out of a rocket or something?

Andy Morahan: It’s because it’s cold and unpleasant. I mean, you wouldn’t like it.

[...]

[Clip from the video – Slash’s second solo scene]

Axl: I thanked Slash because, after it was done - it was hell to do, I hated him. I totally grew to hate the song even though I knew I liked it, and then when it was done, I felt so good inside, because it pulled all the stuff out of me.

[Footage from the filming of Slash’s second solo scene]

Slash: You know what, but it’s not even one of those things that deserves a special thanks, really, because I think it has more to do with the kind of relationship in the band that we have. So that it just happened to be the right piece of music at the right time that I had the right guitar thing for, so I don’t think it needs all that much credit - you know, all things considered. It was more just like a relationship, the spontaneity of the relationship and just – I had it because that’s why we play together.

Axl: It’s been mind-boggling and amazing to me that we wrote these songs, then we went on tour, and then all the songs kept reinventing themselves to me or to the band, because of whatever situations were going on in our life.

Andy Morahan: It’s another thing having got to know them over the last couple of years. I mean, actually it was the strongest thing about this song. You know, one could put a made up story or whatever, but what I perceived in terms of the band is that they’re away, they were all away from loved ones all the time, and it was always constant separation and reconciliation. To me, that’s the strongest theme going throughout it. You know, there’s things that are particular to Axl, there’s things that are particular to Slash and everybody. So what I’m trying to do today with this hospitality thing, I was trying to bring another element to the band that people don’t really see, which is their other halves or potentially other halves.

[Footage from the filming of a scene in Axl’s house]

Andy Morahan: I mean, I’m trying to make this more spiritual, and there are some good technical things in it, some great transitions. And we’re just about to do a motion control shot where Axl comes out of his own body and stuff like that. I think this one, to me, is gonna be the deepest one in a weird way.

[Clip from the video]

Matt: Some of these video shoots go on forever, man. You know, they’ll start at, like, I don’t know, whatever hour of the day, noon, and go till 10:00 the next morning. I never realized or fathomed what goes into the making of such a video. It’s hard, I mean, just being around through the whole time. The waiting is the hardest part. So it’s a 24-hour thing, you know? Into the next day.

Duff: We do this all over and it gets to be 6:00 in the morning, you know, and it’s like, “Hey, you guys have enough shots of me, man” (laughs)

[Scenes from the video – Music]

Gilby: When I first saw Don’t Cry - and I was not associated with the band in any way, and I saw it, I thought it was the coolest video that they’d done. I didn’t understand it at all, but I liked that. I thought it was really, really cool and interesting to see the band do something that different.

Duff: I understand it in my own way. And for me to give my explanation of the trilogy would be kind of ridiculous, because I’m sure Axl’s got his. I mean, I know what Axl’s thinking, and Slash, and – I think they’re three very beautiful videos and should be taken as that.

Dizzy: Oh, I think they’re great. They’re amazing. You know, I’m still trying to figure them out, but so it’s always fun when people ask you, “What does that mean?” “Hey, I don’t know.”

Matt: This is the first video I’ve actually really shown up that much. November Rain just – I’m not in that video that much, because it drove me nuts making it.

Gilby: I don’t know, I don’t know. I’ll be probably explaining this video for the next year, too, just like the last one – and not knowing what I’m talking about and just blabbering (laughs).  

Andy Morahan: The best thing you can do when it comes to expectation is to throw people off. You know, if they expect the answer, then give them something else. It’s too easy to give people the answer. And there are no answers with this band.

[Clip from the video]

Duff: I think it’s cool that it’s not obvious what it’s all about. It’ll keep you guessing forever. I mean, nobody’s ever gonna actually come out and say, “This is exactly what this means here” and “Don’t you get it?” So it’s up to the viewer. I think that’s cool.

[Clip from the video]

Axl: If you still have emotions and feelings, not wanting something to die, caring about another person and not wanting them to destroy themselves - I mean, the song can be applied to Steven Adler; the song can be applied to a lot of people, members of my family; it can be applied to the relationship I had with Erin, to the relationship with Stephanie... And there’s not a goddamn thing you can do about it and trying to figure that out. So to me, at the present time, sitting here right now, this and Coma are the two heaviest songs I’ve ever written.

[Clip from the video]

Axl: It’s really wild to be doing this video, and things going on in my home with my family that... It would have been nice if it would have happened with Stephanie and I, but the woman continually worked very subtly at destroying that and trying to keep me from being here, for whatever fucking reason, I don’t know. And it’s amazing when certain things are happening and it’s nice to, like, realize, “Wow, this wouldn’t be as cool if she was here as the person she was when she was with me.” That’s very strange. It’s also very strange to know that deep inside, underneath all the varying emotions, I do love this person and care about what happens to them – but not at the point of being a martyr or hurting anyone that’s in my life.  

[Footage from filming scenes – Dialogues - End titles]

I must've watched that video a million times. thank you