Take care of your Band Brother or support your Fans? :/

I usually don't start anymore new Topics and usually post new thoughts into my Karice's Guns N'Roses Corner or existing Threads, but this question is too important for me to just add to Karice's Guns N'Roses Thread.

When Axl got angry at St. Louis Concert in 1991 and stormed off after an Audience Member was illegally filming him and his Gun Brothers(And he dove in literally to stop the filming and hit a Security Member for failing to do his job, or at least properly, he slammed the microphone and stormed off. All of his Gun Brothers followed him, leaving their Fans angry and confused.  Then a Riot ensued shortly as a result of this.

Do you take care of your Band Brother or support your Fans in this situation? I mean obviously, Axl was beyond angry and it's only logical that the Guns would want to take care of their Rose Brother when he's this upset. But all four of them leaving with him was a ballsy move, especially when there are MANY  Fans who paid to see a full set.

I don't understand why Slash, Duff, and Steven didn't send Izzy to go support Axl (Izzy showed the most concern for Axl when Axl suddenly stopped performing and demanded the guy be grabbed and the item be taken away from him) and the three of them finish the set. There was no logical reason for all four Gun Brothers to leave with Axl. He REALLY just needed one Gun to go support him, and calm him down. In fact, it was said that the original plan was to go calm Axl down and then all five of them would continue and finish the set once Hurricane Axl was no longer an angry storm,  but the riot had already gotten out of control by then and the Guns N'Roses Manager ushered them to the bus to ride for the hills. Just one Gun Brother was needed to go calm Axl down, not all 4. The Gun Brothers knew that Axl was explosive, fiery, temperamental, moody, impulsive. His bursts of anger were no surprise to them. Just send one Brother to support him and that would have been ideal and maybe the Riot wouldn't have happened.

It wasn't about taking care of Axl, they simply had no choice. Their singer and frontman had left. In the 80s they could have continued with Izzy and Duff trading vocals, but not in the 90s with tens of thousands of fans having paid for a proper Guns N' Roses show. So they left the stage, not to stand by their singer, but because they had no other choice. I can guarantee you, there was little support for Axl backstage that night, and why should there have been? Axl had stopped another concert because we was pissy about a minor thing, risking a riot and the health of not only the band but all the audience, too, because of his anger issues and petulancy.

Soulmonster wrote:It wasn't about taking care of Axl, they simply had no choice. Their singer and frontman had left. In the 80s they could have continued with Izzy and Duff trading vocals, but not in the 90s with tens of thousands of fans having paid for a proper Guns N' Roses show. So they left the stage, not to stand by their singer, but because they had no other choice. I can guarantee you, there was little support for Axl backstage that night, and why should there have been? Axl had stopped another concert because we was pissy about a minor thing, risking a riot and the health of not only the band but all the audience, too, because of his anger issues and petulancy.

Hmm. Izzy is the one I suggested leave with Axl, it would be hard to have him singing with Duff when he left with Axl!

Soulmonster wrote:It wasn't about taking care of Axl, they simply had no choice. Their singer and frontman had left. In the 80s they could have continued with Izzy and Duff trading vocals, but not in the 90s with tens of thousands of fans having paid for a proper Guns N' Roses show. So they left the stage, not to stand by their singer, but because they had no other choice. I can guarantee you, there was little support for Axl backstage that night, and why should there have been? Axl had stopped another concert because we was pissy about a minor thing, risking a riot and the health of not only the band but all the audience, too, because of his anger issues and petulancy.

I do love that Axl also supports his Gun Brothers as well. Axl cut a show short because Duff got hit in the head with a glass bottle and showed regret that he had to cut a show short and showed concern that his Gun Brother had to go to the hospital. Axl said something to the Audience like,"I am so sorry I have to cut the show short. It's just that Duff has to go to the hospital after being hit in the head with a glass bottle. You guys understand, right?" The Audience was like,"We understand," and Axl waved them off nicely.

Guns N'Roses Fans were like,"Axl here was completely justified in cutting the show short. I wouldn't have kept going either after my Band Brother was hit in the head with a glass bottle and had to go to the hospital either."

Hmm. Axl's anger is actually more of a Tornado than a Hurricane. A Tornado is VERY powerful and furious and fast, but only lasts about a few seconds or minutes. A Hurricane is pretty bad but nowhere near as bad as a Hurricane, but lasts hours. Axl's anger is definitely a Tornado.

I wonder why Axl was allowed to walk off stage and leave in  the first place. A Manager or at least one of the Gun Brothers should have grabbed his Hot headed ass and make him stay and finish the set.... 🧐🤨 Those Fans paid to see him perform all the way, not storm off midset.

Karice wrote:I wonder why Axl was allowed to walk off stage and leave in  the first place. A Manager or at least one of the Gun Brothers should have grabbed his Hot headed ass and make him stay and finish the set.... 🧐🤨

Physically trying to restrain him from leaving? Well, Axl would likely not peacefully comply and it would hell afterwards.

There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Soulmonster wrote:

Karice wrote:I wonder why Axl was allowed to walk off stage and leave in  the first place. A Manager or at least one of the Gun Brothers should have grabbed his Hot headed ass and make him stay and finish the set.... 🧐🤨

Physically trying to restrain him from leaving? Well, Axl would likely not peacefully comply and it would hell afterwards.

There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Maybe not a Manager to grab Axl physically, but at least one of his Gun Brothers could have physically grabbed Axl to stop him from leaving. He definitely would have been more respectful and nicer to a Gun Brother grabbing him than a Manager if you get my drift.

Karice wrote:

Soulmonster wrote:

Karice wrote:I wonder why Axl was allowed to walk off stage and leave in  the first place. A Manager or at least one of the Gun Brothers should have grabbed his Hot headed ass and make him stay and finish the set.... 🧐🤨

Physically trying to restrain him from leaving? Well, Axl would likely not peacefully comply and it would hell afterwards.

There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Maybe not a Manager to grab Axl physically, but at least one of his Gun Brothers could have physically grabbed Axl to stop him from leaving. He definitely would have been more respectful and nicer to a Gun Brother grabbing him than a Manager if you get my drift.

There hasn't really at any time been a band member of Axl who has physically stood up to him when he's been a prick. Matt probably came the closest.

Perhaps because they knew it wouldn't work and would just do more damage. Perhaps because they were cowards.

I think that if any had tried to physically restrain him, things would just get worse. I simply don't think that's the right way to handle a person with Axl's personality. It must be dealt with when he is calm and more receptive, not when he is having an anger outburst.

Soulmonster wrote:

Karice wrote:

Soulmonster wrote:

Karice wrote:I wonder why Axl was allowed to walk off stage and leave in  the first place. A Manager or at least one of the Gun Brothers should have grabbed his Hot headed ass and make him stay and finish the set.... 🧐🤨

Physically trying to restrain him from leaving? Well, Axl would likely not peacefully comply and it would hell afterwards.

There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Maybe not a Manager to grab Axl physically, but at least one of his Gun Brothers could have physically grabbed Axl to stop him from leaving. He definitely would have been more respectful and nicer to a Gun Brother grabbing him than a Manager if you get my drift.

There hasn't really at any time been a band member of Axl who has physically stood up to him when he's been a prick. Matt probably came the closest.

Perhaps because they knew it wouldn't work and would just do more damage. Perhaps because they were cowards.

I think that if any had tried to physically restrain him, things would just get worse. I simply don't think that's the right way to handle a person with Axl's personality. It must be dealt with when he is calm and more receptive, not when he is having an anger outburst.

Hmm. Axl's anger was a  Tornado, not a Hurricane. To me, a Tornado anger is an an anger that is VERY intense, but only lasts about a few minutes. And then it's over. A Hurricane anger is an anger that isn't as intense but lasts for a week. So Axl's anger rips through for a few minutes and then he is calm. His anger doesn't last long, but is incredibly intense. It was best to let the Axl Tornado anger rip through for a couple of minutes(People can go hide in a proverbial Cellar while the Axl Tornado is ripping through, ) and then let the Axl Tornado dissipate into a a calm, breezy day. It would have been worse if he was a Hurricane and was angry for a week.

Soulmonster wrote:
There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Maybe it's the same show I read about (years ago), a German promoter told this story of how he had the doors backstage closed, so Axl couldn't leave. Thus Axl returned to the stage with anger in his guts and delivered "the goods". Afterwards he told the promoter how great the show was...

Uli wrote:

Soulmonster wrote:
There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Maybe it's the same show I read about (years ago), a German promoter told this story of how he had the doors backstage closed, so Axl couldn't leave. Thus Axl returned to the stage with anger in his guts and delivered "the goods". Afterwards he told the promoter how great the show was...

That's the one.

Uli wrote:

Soulmonster wrote:
There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Maybe it's the same show I read about (years ago), a German promoter told this story of how he had the doors backstage closed, so Axl couldn't leave. Thus Axl returned to the stage with anger in his guts and delivered "the goods". Afterwards he told the promoter how great the show was...

We have found Tornado Axl's weakness! Closed backstage doors!

Hmm. Locking the backstage doors so that Axl couldn't leave could have had unexpected consequences like Axl... Doing NOTHING but sitting on a chair on stage and pouting petulantly, melancholy, and pensively with this kind of expression until the audience boos him off the stage in disgust, which was his goal since he is angry and doesn't want to perform at that moment. Luckily, Axl decided to put on a great Show.

Karice wrote:

Soulmonster wrote:

Karice wrote:I wonder why Axl was allowed to walk off stage and leave in  the first place. A Manager or at least one of the Gun Brothers should have grabbed his Hot headed ass and make him stay and finish the set.... 🧐🤨

Physically trying to restrain him from leaving? Well, Axl would likely not peacefully comply and it would hell afterwards.

There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Maybe not a Manager to grab Axl physically, but at least one of his Gun Brothers could have physically grabbed Axl to stop him from leaving. He definitely would have been more respectful and nicer to a Gun Brother grabbing him than a Manager if you get my drift.

Hmm. To make it clear what I was trying to convey with this post is that Axl would have most likely FOUGHT a Manager if a Manager grabbed him to make him finish the set and not leave midset, but Axl would most likely not fight a Band Brother who grabbed him in order to make him finish the set and not leave. He'd be a LOT more submissive and nicer  to a Band Brother grabbing him than a Manager as they know each other and understand each other better and are more of a Family than a Manager. Think about it. Would you rather be grabbed by your Brother or your Manager?

Karice wrote:Luckily, Axl decided to put on a great Show.  

I guess the anger fueled him! It helped him to vent, screaming out those songs.

Uli wrote:

Karice wrote:Luckily, Axl decided to put on a great Show.  

I guess the anger fueled him! It helped him to vent, screaming out those songs.

Can you imagine if Axl went the opposite way and just sat on a chair staring at the Audience with this looking face until they booed him off stage in disgust? I could see him pulling that type of stunt to Troll the Fans especially since he is full of anger and doesn't want to perform. And then smirk as he is led off the stage and is allowed to walk out the now open backstage door.

Uli wrote:

Soulmonster wrote:
There was actually a show where the promoter prevented Axl from leaving. That worked because Axl had no other options and it became between him and the promoter, not him and his band mates.

Maybe it's the same show I read about (years ago), a German promoter told this story of how he had the doors backstage closed, so Axl couldn't leave. Thus Axl returned to the stage with anger in his guts and delivered "the goods". Afterwards he told the promoter how great the show was...

I'm could see Axl trying to leave using the Vent System or something like that since backstage doors were closed. People have tried to leave buildings using the Vent System. I can see old(Younger) Axl being impulsive and reckless enough to try to leave by using the Vent System or something like that.

Karice wrote:
Can you imagine if Axl went the opposite way and just sat on a chair staring at the Audience with this looking face

Yeah well, years ago I read about a show ('93?), where he sat on stage and was not willing to move much (maybe due to flying objects out of the audience)...

Uli wrote:

Karice wrote:
Can you imagine if Axl went the opposite way and just sat on a chair staring at the Audience with this looking face

Yeah well, years ago I read about a show ('93?), where he sat on stage and was not willing to move much (maybe due to flying objects out of the audience)...

Hmm. The scenario I was envisioning is him just sitting on a chair on stage and doing absolutely NOTHING but staring at the audience with a melancholy, pensive, and petulant expression because he's angry, locked in, and cannot leave and doesn't want to perform. This type of face. Until they boo him off the stage and he is allowed to leave through doors the Promoter opened for him. The show you are talking about where he sat on a chair on stage, he most likely was still singing and he sat on the chair due for his safety as there were Audience Members throwing items. The scenario I was envisioning, he isn't even singing not is he sitting on a chair due to safety issues. He's just sitting in a chair staring at the Audience with this expression. They'd definitely boo him off the stage if he just stared at them like

The concern back then was what would happen if the audiences rioted. There was a real fear that a riot could lead to tremendous damages and injuries. A promoter couldn't risk that, and Axl didn't want to risk that after St. Louis. So band members would argue with Axl to return to stage, promoters would prevent Axl from leaving and beg or coerce him to go back on stage, and Axl himself would realize he had to return on stage when he had calmed down. They couldn't risk another St Louis. That being said, they came close on a few occasions.

Soulmonster wrote:The concern back then was what would happen if the audiences rioted. There was a real fear that a riot could lead to tremendous damages and injuries. A promoter couldn't risk that, and Axl didn't want to risk that after St. Louis. So band members would argue with Axl to return to stage, promoters would prevent Axl from leaving and beg or coerce him to go back on stage, and Axl himself would realize he had to return on stage when he had calmed down. They couldn't risk another St Louis. That being said, they came close on a few occasions.

IIRC, Axl said he didn't know he would inadvertently incite a Riot when he stormed off the St. Louis Concert stage in a huff. Glad he learned his lesson from that Rioting disaster.

Hmm. Another way that angry Axl could have been been calmed down VERY soon, especially during a Concert is  if someone gave him a tranquilizer shot to calm his hot headed self down. Bet he wouldn't leave a stage when he's been tranquilized!

About Axl's anger and leaving in the infamous Riverport Concert near St. Louis, his song lyrics pretty much match up to his feelings at that moment...

Back Off, don't feck with me, let me be!

Karice wrote:

Uli wrote:

Karice wrote:Luckily, Axl decided to put on a great Show.  

I guess the anger fueled him! It helped him to vent, screaming out those songs.

Can you imagine if Axl went the opposite way and just sat on a chair staring at the Audience with this looking face until they booed him off stage in disgust? I could see him pulling that type of stunt to Troll the Fans especially since he is full of anger and doesn't want to perform. And then smirk as he is led off the stage and is allowed to walk out the now open backstage door.

I found a video of Axl in Court that closely matches the face I was envisioning in this post.



Can you imagine if that face he makes throughout most of the Court Video was the face he would have done to paying Fans, doing nothing but making that face and sitting in a chair on stage? Lord have mercy...
🧐

Well I just happened to stumble upon this, an interview apparently done in late January 1992, back then Axl said this about St Louis:

Well, I think that the way the media covered it made me look completely responsible for it. I don’t think I was the last straw. I think that the people who decided to start throwing stuff were the last straw. We have a big problem with the people that were at that concert. We gave them a ninety-minute show. We gave them what we were contracted to do, and we gave it good. They wanted more, and they felt that they could just have it, regardless of what happened to us or how we felt about it. When we say, “Fuck St. Louis,” we’re talking about the people that tore up the place. They know who they are –– we’re not talking about anybody else. Whether I jumped off the stage for a camera or not, that’s not a good enough reason to tear the place down. It was announced that we would come back onstage, and they were more into the riot than even the band playing.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/axl-rose-the-rolling-stone-interview-99204/

Uli wrote:Well I just happened to stumble upon this, an interview apparently done in late January 1992, back then Axl said this about St Louis:

Well, I think that the way the media covered it made me look completely responsible for it. I don’t think I was the last straw. I think that the people who decided to start throwing stuff were the last straw. We have a big problem with the people that were at that concert. We gave them a ninety-minute show. We gave them what we were contracted to do, and we gave it good. They wanted more, and they felt that they could just have it, regardless of what happened to us or how we felt about it. When we say, “Fuck St. Louis,” we’re talking about the people that tore up the place. They know who they are –– we’re not talking about anybody else. Whether I jumped off the stage for a camera or not, that’s not a good enough reason to tear the place down. It was announced that we would come back onstage, and they were more into the riot than even the band playing.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/axl-rose-the-rolling-stone-interview-99204/

YouTube has a clip of Kurt Loder interviewing Axl in a Limo after his bond setting for inadvertently inciting a Riot at the infamous Riverport Concert Riot. Prior to the bond setting, Axl comes out of a Cop Car with his hands cuffed behind his back. He is wearing a Pink Versace suit. His Bond was $100,000. When asked by Reporters what happened, Axl responds ,"The Prosecutor reneged on a promise he made." Axl sounds like he is trying to sound nonchalant about the Prosecutor renenging on the promise he made, but there seems to be a note of hurt and disgust that the Prosecutor reneged on a promise he made. In the Limo Interview, he tells Kurt something like,"What hurts me a lot is that no one took responsibility." He also implies that he realizes that he overreacted by jumping headfirst offstage into the crowd. He said something like,"Okay, I jumped headfirst off stage into the crowd and maybe I should have handled that a different way, but the guy had a knife(It was actually a camera but the guy admitted he had a knife he was ready to pull, so he had both)! He also pointed out he didn't turn himself right away after the Riot because he didn't want to get screwed over by the St. Louis Prosecutors, and wanted to wait until he could get a good plea deal. Smart man, but it seems like he may still have gotten screwed over by the "Prosecutor reneged on a promise he made," Comment. But it's extremely possible that he would have been screwed over WAY worse if he had turned in himself right after the Riot than if he had waited months like he did to get a good plea deal.