2021.08.18 - Vinyl Writer Music - Interview with Rob Gardner

An Interview with Rob Gardner of Guns N’ Roses & L.A. Guns
Andrew Dicecco
August 18

Though his name has been relegated to a mere footnote in the annals of rock ‘n’ roll history over the years, Rob Gardner proved to be an integral ingredient to a formula that spawned two iconic rock acts in the 1980s.

Gardner, a self-taught drummer who initially honed his chops in marching bands, relocated from New York to Los Angeles as a young teenager. A rising sophomore at Fairfax Senior High School, Gardner struck up an immediate friendship with classmate Tracii Guns, forging a bond that would ultimately alter the course of music history. Once the pair learned of their respective musical aspirations, a jam session transpired that would subsequently parlay into a sizeable commitment.

Singer Mike Jagosz, whom Gardner had known from his previous school, and bassist Dani Tull teamed with Guns and Gardner to round out a four-piece band called Pyrrhus. However, friend Raz Cue provided unexpected financial backing, which inspired Gardner and Guns to modify their vision and evolve.

Guns, poised to be among the next wave of virtuoso guitarists to emerge from a crowded Los Angeles rock scene, and the multifaceted Gardner remained an inseparable unit, forming L.A. Guns in 1983. The initial incarnation of the hard rock powerhouse also included Jagosz and bassist Ole Beich. The new-look quartet managed to record an EP, entitled Collector’s Edition No. 1, at Westlake Audio in Westlake, California before external forces prompted a reconfigured lineup. In need of a singer to replace Jagosz, L.A. Guns enlisted the help of charismatic frontman Axl Rose — then known as Bill Bailey — of Rapidfire and Hollywood Rose fame, in the interim.

Hollywood Rose would reunite on Dec. 31, 1984, for a New Year’s Eve celebration at Dancing Waters in San Pedro, California, with Gardner replacing Johnny Kreis behind the drum kit, respectively. The lineup that evening featured Rose (vocals), Izzy Stradlin (rhythm guitar), Chris Weber (lead guitar), Steve Darrow (bass), and Gardner (drums).

In the aftermath, Weber left the band and was supplanted by Guns. The two bands, L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, then merged to form Guns N’ Roses in March of 1985. The original lineup of the storied hard rock act consisted of Rose, Guns, Stradlin, Gardner, and Beich.

I recently sat down with Rob Gardner, co-founder of legendary rock acts L.A. Guns and Guns N’ Roses, to learn more about the origins.

Andrew:
I appreciate you making some time, Rob. I’d like to start by asking about your earliest introduction to music.

Rob:
I grew up in New York. I was born in Manhattan and then my parents split up. Then my mom got remarried and I moved to Westchester, which is north of the city; about forty-five minutes outside of the city. And that’s pretty much where I grew up. So, when I was in fifth grade, a buddy of mine played drums in the school marching band. He played the snare drum, and I was like, “I wanna do that.” That’s when I learned snare drum and marching parades. Then I started getting into rock music, so I got a drum set and I just practiced every day. All my buddies were out playing, and I was in my basement practicing after school every day. I had lessons on the snare drum, but as far as the drum kit, I really taught myself. I took drum kit lessons for a little while, like how to read drum music and all that kind of stuff, but mainly taught myself. Then I moved to Los Angeles; I was in ninth grade going into tenth grade. So, basically, I finished ninth grade in L.A. I went to Fairfax High School, and that’s where I met Tracii from L.A. Guns and I met Slash, Steven [Adler], and Chris Weber from Hollywood Rose. I was kind of in that circle.

Andrew:
Who were some of your most prominent drumming influences?

Rob:
Ginger Baker from Cream. I like Ian Paice from Deep Purple. I like Keith Moon; John Bonham, of course; he’s probably my biggest Hard Rock influence. Mitch Mitchell from Jimi Hendrix was another big influence of mine. Just his style, the way he played, and his attack.

Andrew:
You became fast friends with Tracii Guns at Fairfax High School and went on to co-found two bands together. What is your memory from the initial encounter?

Rob:
We both were taking electronics. He was sitting next to me and we started talking. I asked him what he was building, we had little projects that we had to do, and he was building this weird device. I was like, “What the fuck is that?” He was building a theremin – Jimmy Page used them – it senses the heat from your hand and makes the sounds tweak and stuff like that. So, he was building one of those and it was pretty cool. We just hit it off, and then it was, “So, you play guitar?” … “Yeah.” … “You play drums?” … “Yeah.” We got together and jammed and the rest is history.

Andrew:
At the top of our conversation, you mentioned that you also knew Slash and Steven. Were you friends or acquaintances and did you ever jam together?

Rob:
We were more friends than acquaintances. It was always a little bit of a rivalry – me and Tracii had our band and then Slash and Steven had their band. Actually, Slash was playing with a guy named Adam Greenberg; he’s a friend of mine still. We didn’t really jam, so to speak, with each other, but we did at parties. There was a quad at the high school, it was like a little amphitheater, and they’d let us play during lunchtime. It was cool. So, we would do these shows where they’d watch us and we’d watch them, that sort of thing. Then at some of the backyard parties; we knew all the same people, obviously.

Andrew:
Who was Slash’s primary influence at the time?

Rob:
He was a big Aerosmith fan. Joe Perry.

Andrew:
I’ve always been curious about the origins of L.A. Guns. How did the band take shape?

Rob:
Like I said, we met in electronics class, and then we had a friend who also went to Fairfax, he was our bass player, this guy Dani Tull. We would jam all the time. We needed a singer – before I went to Fairfax, I finished ninth grade at a different school – so, anyway, I had met this guy Mike [Jagosz]. Me and Tracii needed a singer, and I said, “I know this guy Mike, he’s really good. Him and his brother are both singers and they’re killer.” So, we ended up having Mike. Before it was L.A. Guns, it was Pyrrhus, which is like a Greek God of fire or something like that. Then we met Raz [Cue], and he also went to Fairfax. He was in a wheelchair, we kind of befriended him, and apparently, he had gotten a lawsuit. That’s how he ended up in a wheelchair. He won a lawsuit and wanted to invest the money – here we are all high school kids – but he wanted to invest that money. So, we kind of upped the ante and changed the name. Tracii said, “What do you think of the name L.A. Guns?” I was like, “Yeah.” So, he pretty much thought of that. Then Raz started putting money into the band, buying us cool clothes, bumper stickers, you name it. We put ads out for our shows, and he put us in the studio and we had like a little EP; demo tapes, and all that kind of stuff.

Andrew:
The early 1980s proved to be an iconic period for live music on the Sunset Strip. Given the sheer number of bands vying for prominence during that time, was the band’s following immediate or gradual?

Rob:
I think we got a liking right away. I mean, we obviously knew enough people that come to our shows to show some sort of a buzz and a following, but then it kind of took off from there. Then eventually, Axl had come in – I don’t know what happened with Mike, he got himself in trouble or something — and we needed a singer. So, Axl filled in. And I already knew Izzy – I used to play in Hollywood Rose – when their drummer went AWOL, I would fill in. So, that’s how I connected with that group of people. We needed a singer because Mike wasn’t around, so Axl filled in and that’s how Axl ended up with L.A. Guns. Then Axl and the manager got into a fight and then Mike came back in; it went back and forth a few times but then eventually that’s when we put the two bands together.

Andrew:
How did Axl initially appear on the band’s radar?

Rob:
We already knew how he sang. We already knew him, and we said, “Hey, let’s try this fit.” We were all open to experimenting doing different things, like I say, just filling in for this one or that one or whatever. That’s how that circle worked. When you experiment like this, that’s how you figure out what works and what doesn’t work.

Andrew:
The merging of Hollywood Rose and L.A. Guns ultimately proved to be a pivotal moment in Rock history. Based on your recollection, could you take me through how it all transpired?

Rob:
So, Axl was singing for L.A. Guns, and then Izzy came in. Then our bass player from L.A. Guns kinda wasn’t working out, so Izzy suggested Duff [McKagan]. That transition was really already taking place and we had thought, I think Izzy had come up with the name, and said, “Hey, that’s perfect! Hollywood Rose-L.A. Guns – Guns N’ Roses!” So, we all obviously thought that was cool. But for me and Tracii, on the other hand, we got our bass player replaced with Duff – which isn’t a bad thing because Duff is a great guy and he’s a great player. [Duff] had more of an image and kind of just fit our style better. Ole [Beich] was much more of a Heavy Metal player.

That being said, the whole name change came around. You know, me, Tracii, and Raz had worked so hard and put all this money into that name and really had a buzz going and everything. And it was like, “Well, why change that? It’s kind of a risk to change it.” Like all of the sudden, that whole L.A. Guns thing just disappeared into thin air, and now it’s Guns N’ Roses; which kind of happens all the time in music, I get it. But when you have something going and it was your baby, and then all of the sudden you have two more big influences that are trying to take more control and change the name and change the members. So, me and Tracii were a little bit like – not that we didn’t like it because it was cool and it was working – I think there just was that whole control factor I think that kind of got overtaken. So, for me and Tracii, I think it was a little more bitter. There weren’t any big fights or anything, I’m just saying that I think we were both in the back of our minds like, “What’s going on?” Then the drugs really started.

Me and Tracii may have smoked some pot here and then, you know, drank and stuff, but we never did heavy drugs like that really at that time. So, some of the other heavier drugs got introduced and we were seeing the effects of that, too, within the band and we were losing control of everything. I mean, we were doing shows and stuff and the shows were good and what have you, we were getting a little buzz and things like that, but then the Hell Tour thing came up. They wanted to go all the way up to Seattle and then work our way back down to Portland, San Francisco, blah, blah, blah. But the vehicle we had just was not gonna make it. I mean, I was thinking, “If this thing breaks down, what are we gonna do?” We were all broke; we didn’t really have any money. Raz had the money, but he ducked out. He was like, “If you guys are gonna change the name and do all this shit, then I’m outta here.” So, we lost him; we didn’t have any financial backing.

So, Tracii decided not to go. I thought it was the other way around; I thought I ducked out of that tour first and then he ducked out after me like a week later or something like that. But my friend Marc Canter told me it was the other way around; he said, “Tracii ducked out first and then you followed him and said, “Nah, I’m outta here, too. I’m done.” That’s when we pulled out and then they basically immediately replaced us with Slash and Steven. And the rest is history.

Andrew:
This was probably around the same time that Slash auditioned for Poison.

Rob:
Yeah, he was jumping around to different projects at that time. He played for my friend Wille Basse; he played in Black Sheep for a little while. Black Sheep always had killer guitar players. Like Paul Gilbert came from there and he always had really good players in that band. All the players were awesome musicians. I lived with the bass player, this guy Paul Carmen, and the drummer was a good friend of mine, Todd Devito. Anyway, [Slash] was in that band for a while, and then I think he auditioned for Poison and London. It just ended up he ended up in G N’ R and the rest is history.

Andrew:
Do you have any memory of early gigs from your stint with Guns N’ Roses?

Rob:
I don’t know them in succession, I’m bad with timelines, but I know we did a place called Dancing Waters and that’s out in San Pedro or Long Beach or something like that. So, that was a little bit out of our realm of Hollywood — it’s only like an hour south of L.A. — but still, it’s just out of our usual area. Then we did another place in Glendora called The Timbers. And that’s the same thing, about another hour out of town. The Hollywood scene was so saturated, so we just started branching out to the outskirts a little bit. Then we did shows at The Troubadour. With the name Guns N’ Roses, me and Tracii did about five or six shows with them, and then we both left.

Andrew:
What exactly was Axl and Izzy’s vision for the band?

Rob:
Well, L.A. Guns was more of a Heavy Metal, if you will, band. That was our roots right there, much more of a heavier Metal sort of thing. But Hollywood Rose and that influence were a little more roots-oriented, I suppose. It’s hard to explain. Izzy, at that time, was really coming up with some cool stuff that was still heavy but just more roots-influenced kind of stuff. There’s a difference between, obviously, Heavy Metal and Hard Rock. Then once Duff came in, Duff had a lot of cool influences to bring into the band. He had done everything from Punk to just real indie-type stuff. He added a cool flavor. I knew Izzy pretty much from the day I moved to L.A. because I had met Mike and his brother Dave and Izzy was playing in Dave’s band. So, I knew Izzy already, well before I knew Axl or Tracii, even. And I knew his style; he just had a different vibe. He had his own kind of thumbprint going on. That was the mix that made it work. It was still heavy enough, but still kind of commercial and raw enough to where it just worked.

Like, I remember we wrote, “Think About You.” I remember the day we put it all together. Izzy said, “Hey, check this out,” and he starts playing it and I just chimed in on the drums and all the dynamics of it just came out so fast. It was a song that was almost written and done in one day. It was crazy. And it never really changed, even when it was on vinyl when they recorded for Appetite. It really didn’t change at all, pretty much. That’s a perfect example of the dynamics of a song and how it starts out slow and then it just builds and turns into this deep song; lyrics-involved and just the dynamics of the song and how it builds is pretty cool. That’s the kind of thing they were going for and there was some real good songwriting going on there. So, it was kind of a step up. I mean, in L.A. Guns we had tons of songs, but Metal can be kind of repetitive. That’s the thing…when you start adding some more flavors to it and different influences to music, it kind of gels better and becomes more commercially likable if you will.

Andrew:
Are you able to recall any of the early songs from the Guns N’ Roses catalog?

Rob:
Yeah. “Think About You,” like I said, we wrote that together. I never got credit for it because I didn’t actually do the writing, but I did help with the arrangements on that, for sure. That and, “Move to the City” was another song. That wasn’t on Appetite; I think it was on G N’ R Lies. “Move to the City,” was kind of a cool, boppy song. Not one of their biggest hits, but it was a cool song. Then “Anything Goes” was a Hollywood Rose song, and that was pretty much just a rocker all the way through from beginning to end. I remember playing that with them. Then we had taken some L.A. Guns stuff and turned that into G N’ R style a little bit more. So, Axl changed the lyrics and we changed the dynamics of things a little bit; maybe changed the pace, things like that. But none of that ever really went on Appetite or anything.

Andrew:
The band parted with Ole shortly after its inception. Do you have any recollection of how renowned bassist Duff McKagan entered the picture?

Rob:
I think Izzy drove up there to go get him. I don’t think he had a car. Somehow or another, he got himself up there and went, picked him off, and drove back. Yeah, I remember the day [Duff] came in, and met him, and jammed. Just a totally different feel, though, from Ole. Ole was, it’s hard to explain and I’m not bagging on him or anything, but he played with Mercyful Fate because he grew up in Demark. And Mercyful Fate was like a real, hard Metal band. That was Ole’s style; he could nail that with his eyes closed. That’s where he fit. But when it came to G N’ R, it was just a different thing. You had to kind of change your appearance a little more. He just didn’t fit. We were a little bit more glammy, is what I’m saying, and he just wasn’t glammy at all. He wouldn’t put on any fucking makeup. He’s like, “I’m not putting that shit on my face.” Because when you do shows, you gotta do stage makeup and stuff and at that time it was just a little more glammy. We never went over the top like Poison did, obviously, or shit like that, but just your typical stage makeup. Then the clothes being worn were definitely more eccentric. Like Axl always dressed to make a statement. Then Izzy had his style. Duff had his style of dressing kind of like a guttery sort of a look; just kind of real street – boots, jeans, vests, hats, scarves, jewelry, tattoos.

Andrew:
What was your style?

Rob:
Because we still had the clothes from L.A. Guns — and so did Axl, but the clothes that he chose to get were just a little bit more eccentric than me and Tracii; me and Tracii dressed more like — I had a white leather jacket, he had like a red one and then leather pants or shorts, things like that. It was so early on that it was all just developing. Then like I said, we didn’t have the money anymore because Raz split. But that would have grown in time for sure and kind of molded into whatever it was going to. I was the drummer, so I could wear just like sneakers back there or wrestling shoes behind the drums there and some fish-net shirts. Just kind of that style back then.

Andrew:
Aside from “Think About You,” did you have any other song contributions during your tenure with the band?

Rob:
Nothing after Appetite but I think I definitely worked towards Appetite. I wasn’t a songwriter; I played guitar, but I was definitely not trained in any way, really. It was kind of just by ear. I think I was more arrangement-wise, like, “Hey, wait a minute. Let’s try this here. Why don’t we try this beat here or change the guitar part here?” Things like that, just sort of helping mold the song. And I did backup vocals and all that stuff. As a drummer, your main thing is to just try and keep the beat, and you can change up beats which sometimes triggers a new guitar part, things like that. You hear stuff in your head, and you’re like, “Okay, I’m gonna play it this way. Let’s see if someone catches on to that and see what they do with it.” And everyone was good that way. I think all the guys in the band were really cool with improvising and just coming up with, “Oh, that’s cool. Hold on. Let’s do that again.” You know, things like that. I think we worked well in that department, for sure.

Andrew:
You touched on this earlier in our conversation, but what exactly prompted your departure from Guns N’ Roses?

Rob:
Well, like I said, me and Tracii just felt like we had lost control. The drugs were getting out of control and then they wanted to go do this tour in an unreliable van and throw all of our gear in it. Where are we gonna stay? How are we gonna eat? None of us had money. You know, shit like that. My fear was exactly what happened: What if this thing breaks down? What are we gonna do? You can’t just walk a fuckin’ whole set of drums to the next town and go, “Hey, can I leave these here until we get our car fixed?” So, that’s exactly what happened to them. They went there and did it, the van broke down, and they all had to hitchhike. And they left all their gear in the car, and it all got stolen. I was like, “This is the only drum set that I got. I’m not jeopardizing it.” If we had a better van or a reliable thing I would have probably done it, but they just went off the cuff and did it. So, they ended up hitchhiking all the way up there and borrowing, the band that they were playing with, they borrowed their equipment. But that was by chance that they let them do that. But they did it; it’s just all about perseverance and determination … “We’re gonna do this thing no matter what. Let’s go.”

Andrew:
How different would Appetite For Destruction have sounded had it have been you manning the drum kit instead of Steven?

Rob:
I think the producer, Mike Clink, he kept everything with the drums real straight ahead and just a big, huge drum sound; real straight ahead, simple, a lot of 4/4. I mean, I think Steven and I were pretty much similar drummers. I considered myself, I don’t wanna say better – I’m not tooting my horn – but maybe just more experienced. I had a lot of different influences going on. But when it comes down to it, your job as a drummer is to really keep it in the pocket; keep the groove going. And if a producer’s asking for this … “Hey, this is gonna sound better if we do it this way,” you have to be open-minded and you have to be able to run along with it. So, I think, to answer your question, whether I did the drums on Appetite or he did the drums on Appetite, it doesn’t really matter because we were both equally good enough to play that music and we both knew it well enough.

Andrew:
Believe it or not, October 16th marks 30 years since the passing of Ole Beich. You were band members in both L.A. Guns and Guns N’ Roses, so is there a particular memory that you care to share?

Rob:
Ole was a good guy. I think he had his struggles, just from the world he came from. I mean, I obviously don’t know his upbringing; I didn’t know him as a child. We got along really well; I remember we both lived in the rehearsal studio for a while together. We were like sleeping on the fuckin’ floor. We had like a 24-hour lockout, so we basically just lived in there. [Laughs]. We got to obviously know each other quite well, being in a band together, and he would tell me his things going on. It was like, “Ah, I don’t know about this. Should we do this or not?” He just kind of wasn’t really into it as much as he was the L.A. Guns thing. I think he liked the L.A. Guns thing a lot better than he did the Guns N’ Roses. Just more his style. We were close friends, you know? I miss him.

Andrew:
In the aftermath of your Guns N’ Roses departure, Tracii revived L.A. Guns. Were there ever any preliminary conversations regarding your involvement in the reformation?

Rob:
By the time the Guns N’ Roses thing fell apart for us, I think we both decided to just go our own ways at that point. We weren’t really fighting about it or anything; I think we both needed some time to kind of come down and let that whole thing pass and just get back into it. So, I went my way and he went his way. That was that. But no, he never really offered me to come and play. He wanted to start something all new and fresh, completely new people, that whole thing. So, that’s what he did.

Andrew:
The 90s was a notoriously volatile time for Rock music and effectively extinguished the remnants of an iconic decade. How did you navigate the tumultuous era, Rob?

Rob:
I had a band back in the late 80s that did very well. We were headlining, all that stuff. Then that kind of fell apart and went to another project that I worked with for a while. And that was much more roots-oriented, kind of old Rolling Stones, Faces, Aerosmith, like that sort of style. And we had a producer come in and had like a speck deal type thing. He put us in the studio and we did some recordings and rehearsals. He was trying to get us a record deal, but I think by that time it was the early 90s, things had changed so much over to the Grunge type thing and I think that’s what record companies were looking for at that point. So, we kind of missed the boat again on that one. But yeah, I kept going.

Then I got married in the mid-90s, ’97 actually, and had some kids and I took a backseat on the drumming thing. Like I still played, but just not with a band. And I haven’t really immersed myself in another band situation ever since. I think, for me, it’s just about survival and at this point, having to feed the family and things like that. It’s hard to focus on trying to get a record deal and make money doing music when you got kids. Like, you can’t have any questions there; you have to provide no matter what. You gotta work.

I’ve been playing the whole time. I just got a new drum set — I’ve had a drum set the whole time — but I just upgraded to a nice, new kit; keeping my chops up. And I play guitar, and a little keyboard and bass. I was working on some stuff and maybe I’ll put something together. I go up to Seattle a lot; I have a girlfriend up there and I might be relocating up there. I kind of want to immerse myself in that scene instead of L.A.; I’ve been in L.A. for so long and I kind of want to immerse myself in that scene up there. I know a bunch of musicians up there and there’s still stuff going on. I mean, there’s been so many great artists that have come out of Seattle, it’s crazy. That’s where Duff is from. There’s just all kinds of cool influences up there. I want to do something kind of different. Still Rock, obviously, but just something cool. Just something different and get back to playing again. So, yeah, I’m kind of looking forward to that.

Andrew:
When you look back on the legacy of the respective bands in which you co-founded, what are you most proud of?

Rob:
Well, you know, I think it would just have to be that we made a mark. We made a major influence and I was a part of that. I remember those shows that we did, with L.A. Guns and Guns N’ Roses. We were able to light up an audience and people would get into it. It was cool to see how music can really speak volumes, and the crowd that you draw, and the people that get into it. And then you get a lot of compliments after the show, things like that, and you’re like, “Okay, there’s something going on here.” We created a buzz. I think, for me, I was part of that whole time, and the people I worked with at the time, and what we started.

https://vinylwritermusic.com/an-interview-with-rob-gardner-of-guns-n-roses-l-a-guns/

It's interesting that there are so conflicting accounts about the hell tour and whether Rob or Tracii left first.

Tracii has insisted that Rob left first and that he got to play with Steven before he quit, which is supported by an Axl interview in 1988. He also insists that his quitting had nothing to do with the hell tour.

But according to everyone else (Marc Canter, Raz Cue, Slash, Duff, Steven) either Tracii left first, or he and Rob left at about the same time, and Slash and Steven joined at the same time or Steven joined just after Slash. Rob himself says  he didn't remember and was reminded of it by Marc Canter.

Wow great find, love the info on this interview specially about the songwriting and credits etc