2017.10.02 - Appetite For Distortion - Interview with Alan Santalesa (Shire)

Clip:

CLIPS: Pre GN'R Izzy n' Axl (Alan Santalesa, Shire)



Transcript of GN'R related parts from when Santalesa talks about the revolving door of musicians and how they found Izzy through the Recycler:

Alan Santalesa: And so they were gone after this one gig and we again to the Recycler. Dave [Anthony, vocalist in Shire] called us that this guy answered then Adam met him and he looks just like Nikki Sixx. I'm, "Cool!" And it was Izzy Bell. He called himself Izzy Bell, a play on his last name Isbell, And it was Izzy. We met him and he worked out great.

Someone: What was it like meeting him for the first time? Because you said you went through everyone under the sun.

AS: Everyone under the sun.

Someone: So what about Izzy?

AS: He was a very, at the time, a very enthusiastic and energetic person.

Someone: So he looked like Nikki Sixx, did he have hair teased up?

AS: Yeah. He didn't like hearing that but if you look at some of the pictures of Shire at the time, there was a resemblance. You know, the black hair teased out. I remember his shoes were creepers. You know what that is, right?

Someone: Creepers?

AS: They're like the stray cats who were the shoes? Those big, big 50s shoes with the big platform?

Someone: Yes. OK, I didn't know they were called creepers. OK. I've been called the creeper.

[laughs]

AS: Yeah, he wore the creepers and looked like Nikki Sixx. And he was really keen to learn. He had just switched from playing drums with this band called The Naughty Women and a band called The Atoms, sold his drum set and bought a bass amp and a nice white Fender Precision. So he had gear. He was into learning so much that he made notes of the songs and taped them in front of him at the rehearsal so he could read them in the beginning.

Someone: And how old was he at the time?

AS: If you were seventeen he had to be 19.

John: This was '82?

AS: Yes.

John: Yeah. I don't mean to be a geek about, but he would have turned 20 in April of '82. So this is-

AS: Oh, so he was even older than I.

Tape: Nerd alert!

[laughs]

Brando: So that was appropriate. [...] No, I love the fact that you know all these things. [...]

John: April 8th, to be exact.

AS: Oh, what a trip. So he was already 20 when-

Someone: We had another creeper over here! Awesome. OK, so then how long to that... Because you moved over to guitar, but he played bass, but he's known for guitar, rhythm guitar.

AS: He can pretty much play some drums too, you know.

Someone: Oh, I am not pigeonholing, that he can't play it. But did he come as a bassist?

AS: As a bassist.

Brando: OK, so it wasn't just like, "Hey, I can play both," "But we'll need a bassist"?

AS: No, he answered our ad, the ad said "bassist" then.

Brando: So he was totally Nikki-ed out a little bit, you know, because it wasn't just with the look, he was playing bass.

AS: Playing bass, yeah.

John: He really doesn't, in one of those pictures that I sent you, I didn't think how much he looks like Nikki Six but he really does.

Brando: [...]

John: Right. Was he starting to play guitar, even though he was a bass player, was he still starting to teach himself guitar then?

AS: I don't know. I don't even know if he had a guitar. Although I remember when the Hollywood Rose started, he got himself a really nice-

John: White Les Paul.

AS: -black Les Paul Custom, which is like the grand piano of guitars. So he got a nice guitar. He had a Gibson [?] amp, too. I remember stuff that, you know, I remember what people were playing. So it's like their equipment. And when I saw that, I was like, "Wow, that's a nice guitar." You know, he's serious about playing guitar.

Someone: Well, what about writing? Since you were the quote/unquote control freak who wanted to write everything, Izzy obviously wrote a lot for Guns N' Roses. So was he in that mindset of wanting to write as well or what was he like then?

AS: Yes, he was. I remember one time he said, "I have just written this song on the bus." So he plays it for us and it was kind of some kind of punk humor song that he was known for, right, like, I Used To Love Her But I Had To Kill Her, something weird like that. I don't remember the title. And we're just like, "OK, that's nice, but no way." You know, we were the writers.

John: Well, he said he learned guitar by listening to Ramones.

AS: You know, as a matter of fact-

Brando: That's funny, to learn guitar by listening the Ramones.

AS: We, to appease him, we started playing a song by the Ramones.

Someone: And what song do you remember?

AS: Commander.

Someone: Nice. OK.

AS: And I remember, [singing]. I being, because didn't know, you know, punk from nothing. And I played the lead guitar solo in the middle of it and when Axl Rose saw us play somewhere, he was like, "The Ramones with guitar solos?" And I was like, "Yep," you know, "it's weird." But we did that song. We played some covers, you know, and that was one of them.

Someone: I like that. So how long did that last with Izzy? Because I know the story is Shire is a lot bigger than just of course Izzy and we will get into that. Then just to go way back to where we were. So then how many shows did Izzy play with you?

AS: No more than five or six.

Someone: So then what was his departure?

AS: Again, Dave dealt with that. He just call me one day and said, "Izzy, he's leaving, he's gonna play one last show." And I was really disappointed because I got along with him, I mean, we did stuff together. Like one time we went to, we were going to promote a show, and made flyers and instead of passing out flyers outside of a high school, like everybody normal people do, we went inside the high school and taped them on the walls of the school, till the security guard coming, like, "What do you think you're doing?" "Well, we're promoting our show." And then he asked me, "Where are you from?" And I'm like, "Italy." And he goes, "Is that what people do ion Italy, they go inside a school?" and, "You can get arrested for trespassing." So, "OK," so we took all the flyers and got out. Yeah. And so I guess said he was cool, You know, we liked him a lot, no problems with that guy whatsoever, except that it was obvious that he wanted to do his, you know, start writing songs. You wanna do your own thing. And it was a lot different than what we were doing. So he played this one last show at the Troubadour and then he was gone. I would only see him as an acquaintance in clubs, talk to him a little bit. I talked to Axl more than I did him afterwards. And I would see him and I've seen him in several... not several. I saw him playing with London and then Rose, no, Hollywood Rose, and then Guns N' Roses, of course I saw him do that too.

Someone: When did you see him with Guns N' Roses?

AS: I saw him at their first show. No, I don't know if it was the first or the second show. They were saying, "We're introducing this band," of their merged two bands, L.A. Guns and Guns N' Roses, and it's called Guns N' Roses, so it seemed like a side project. I went down to the Troubadour. It was a Tuesday or Thursday night, there was nobody there and I'm pretty sure on the base was Duff McKagan already.

Someone: So you saw the original lineup.

AS: Well, they said the original lineup had Ole Beich. I never saw Ole Beich with Guns N' Roses, I saw him with LA Guns.  

Someone: Interesting. It could have been just the original shows, maybe not the original band. That's what it sounds like.

AS: The original show you had Tracii Guns and-

Someone: So no Slash yet, obviously.

AS: Slash had been in it previously, I saw-

Someone: -when you saw them, though.

AS: I saw Slash when they were called Rose and that was a pretty good lineup. It was only a four piece. Madam Wong's West, I saw them. And we were playing at the same night. Rose was Axl, Slash, this guy named Steve Darrow on bass and Steven Adler on drums. They had this guy Steve Darrow, he was awesome. Not only could he play bass really good, but he constantly ran back and forth on the stage like a maniac and Axl would jump on his back and run across. It was, like, very entertaining. And they did a Nazareth song, Hair Of The Dog, you know, and it was cool and Axl had his hair all up, you know, it was the first time that I thought, "OK," you know, "this is serious, this is good."

Someone: Did you know then, when you were there on Tuesday or Thursday night, and these bands, these friends of yours formed this, you know, super group at the time, I guess, the side project that like, "Wow, this is different," because you said you knew Axl before you've heard him sing before.

AS: Yes.

Someone: So did any of that click when you saw him for the first time or you saw Guns N' Roses for the first time or it was just "Hey, this is just a cool band and that's..." and you were surprised by the heights that they want to.

AS: I could tell they were involved, but they didn't click. Axl was just standing there kind of. And he hadn't yet developed that hip swaying dance.

Someone: OK, not the Davy Jones-

AS: Whatever you wanna call it, he was standing... I remember the song, Think About You, that was really good, that he did Don't Cry and sang it really low. His voice was good, low, and they did Jumping Jack Flash. They ended with that. And I thought, you know, it got better, you know? It was '85, so you have to consider, rock was kind of in a slump then, heavy metal days were over and the glam hadn't yet started. '85 was a gray area. So you were like, "Yeah, we're playing music because we love it, but ain't nothing going to happen," you know, because you know, shit just doesn't happen, you know? And I could not yet foresee, you know, I mean, a lot of people in LA say, "Oh yeah, I loved these guy from the beginning. I was there for them in the beginning." Can you believe that? But that's typical LA bs, because if you were into them, "Why didn't you go to the shows?" "And why don't you," if you're a record label, "Why didn't you sign them then?" Because it was raw and frankly it was kind of like Shire, we would bring... you know, we played a show and our girlfriends would be there and a couple of friends from other bands, 10-15 people, and that was that, you know, and that's all it was.

Someone: Reminds me of that movie Airheads.

[clip]

Someone: Alright, so that's what I want, I wanted to like an initial reaction because a lot of people do say that, "Oh, I knew right away," and sometimes I'm like just like you said, "Do you really know right away?"

AS: One of the people that were really was there for them, I have to say, was this booking agent lady that I'm sure you heard of, Vicky Hamilton.

Brando: Yes, we have. We've had her on the show.

AS: Oh, yeah. She booked Shire too. She worked for Silver Lining Entertainment and, you know, she was like, she was into them, booked them, and eventually managed them and let them stay at her house. So, you know, you got to love somebody if you let them stay in your apartment, five stinky guys, smoking weed and drinking. She's that kind of person. I worked with her in the record shop and she's the kind of person that will help people and not expect anything in return, really, she's passionate about music and knows a lot about it and she recognized the potential almost right away.

Someone: She was a good lady. I think it was also Poison and Faster Pussycat, I believe, she discovered as well-

Someone: -not Motley Crew, no.

AS: Shark Island. No, no, she was booking the Shark Island but I don't think she managed. She was booking them like us, you know, getting them shows.

Someone: Alright then. So then, like, just with the Izzy part of it, when was the last time you saw him? Because you said, after he left Shire, you know, [?] sometimes seem out of shows, but when did that, because, I know it's just life, people stop talking for a variety of reasons. But whence the last time maybe you interacted with him?

AS: It was 1984. I was walking down Sunset Blvd and I see him, he's like, "Oh man," you know, "Me and Axl are house sitting house at an apartment at the bottom of the hill, come over and you'd love to see." And so I had nothing to do so I went over there and I hung out with both of them. They were sitting there in somebody's house for free-

Someone: And you already known Axl at this point?

AS: Yes. I'd known him since '82. This was ' 84.

Someone: Then, you know, then let's put a pin in that. I want to know the first time you met Axl. And then build up to that point, the last time you met Izzy since they were together.

AS: Yes. The first time I met Axl had to be the summer of 1982. They showed up.... I mean, it was him, known as Bill at the time, there was a guy named Paul and another guy that came with him, he was not a musician, he was just along for the ride. They came at the rehearsal, the garage, you know, the famous garage in the back of Dave's house, his parent's. They watched us play. We were introduced and then they got on our instruments and played a song. And that's when I first met him. That's the first time I heard him sing. I remember, you know, they started song, this bare bone primitive song, which was the song they eventually recorded on one of their EPs, The Shadows Of Your Love. He put his head down and started wailing this scream, it was like a foghorn, you know, "My God, now he sings loud" and that was Shadows Of Your Love. They did this song, we talked a little bit and and then I didn't see him for a while.

Someone: What was your impression when he was screaming as foghorn like?

AS: You know, it was so different from what I was into, but I was familiar with that style.

AS: OK that's what I was asking. Was there anything different about the style but you were just familiar-

AS: It was a lot like, I don't know if you're familiar with the Australian band that they ended up covering, Rose Tattoo? They wrote Nice Boys. It was even more primitive than AC/DC. It was just this [humming staccato guitars]. And him screaming. And then when I saw him eventually a lot of the songs were like that. It was not yet that technical, you know, inventive riffing that became Appetite for Destruction, that Aerosmith-like almost funk-like beats, jungle beats, it was none of that, it was just straight ahead wall of sound and him wailing.

Someone: Sure, you gotta start somewhere, got to hone your craft. When you said when they got up to play the instruments, was it just the two of them?

AS: Yeah.

Someone: And, you know, you saying Paul Huge? that. [) It was 1982-

AS: Yeah, he eventually was in the band. Yeah, it was his friend from Indiana.

John: And I knew that he was credited for Shadow of Your Love as well as Back Off Bitch, and the others. But you know, so when he mentioned that to me, I mean, "God is [?]", I mean, again, back at Guns N' Roses' Ground Zero. What I imagine it is, you know, he hadn't technically moved there permanently yet, it was one of the trips out there. I guess hitchhiked, drove, whatever, out there with Paul and I don't know if Paul went back to Indiana or not, but stepping up to to sing one of their earliest songs, I don't know, to me that could be one of the coolest things ever to hear.

Brando: That is amazing, absolutely. So what was the next time... because you said that you hadn't seen him in a while after that first time?

AS: I would see him in clubs, we would hang out outside the Troubadour or the Rainbow and, you know, he wasn't like a friend, he was an acquaintance. And we had things in common, like we loved the English band The Sweet, and we loved Queen. We specially talked about Queen and The Sweet and there was a local band coming up, W.A.S.P.

Someone: Blackie Lawless.

AS: Yes. They just came on the scene like, you know, drawing crowds right away and it was so, the backing vocals in the songs were great. So we're like, "Isn't that great?" And we're like, "Yeah, yeah, it's pretty great." So that was the kind of talks we would have.

Brando: What are the... because he was still Bill then... I was going trying to create what you clearly remember, which is just amazing, what did he look? Like, Izzy had the teased up hair and looked like Nikki Sixx back. What was Bill Bailey? What was his style when you met him?

AS: If you look at those pictures of Rapid Fire, that's pretty much what he looked like. You know, denim jackets. He didn't have any, maybe had one tattoo, and his hair was always down, you know, flat and long. He was really thin, not as thin as me, I was as thin as the straw [?], I mean, I've never heard enough of that shit, "You're too skinny. [...]" that was like, "Leave me alone for Christ."

Someone: Everybody was skinny back then. It was like a heroin chic, wasn't it?

AS: That was before the heroin, actually, nobody I knew, no one did heroin that I knew, until '86.

Someone: Or cocaine or whatever.

AS: There was a lot of cocaine. But you know, we were kids. So it was like, you know, "Fuck that." You know, I don't know about the Guns N' Roses guys, but in Shire, there was like beer and that's it, you know-

Brando: Not even weed?

AS: We didn't smoke. I personally [?] and Dave had his voice to take care of. You know, he wasn't gonna ruin his voice.

Brando: You never know. I mean, Lady Gaga smokes weed and she-

AS: There you go, there you go. But, you know, different strokes-

Someone: Yeah, absolutely. So then I guess what crossed the streams, as it were. So you acquaintances with Axl, after you met him, you know, Izzy had left the band, and then you again, acquaintances at different shows. And we're now back up to the last time you met Izzy. And he's like, "Come over, Axl wants to see you." So is that-

AS: He said, "He'd love to see you." And I went over there and there they were. The two things I remember, there were pictures on the wall of Axl with his hair all teased up, that's the first time I ever saw that, and wearing a lot of makeup, as if he had been modeling for somebody. And it really looked cool. You know he looked like a model.

Brando: He had pictures of himself up?

AS: Yes.

Brando: [...] Like a painting of him, like, you know, fighting a bull.

AS: No, it was a painting of him with wearing this-

Brando: But I mean, like, are they 3 by 5s that are on like a mantle-

John: 8 by 10s-

Brando: -or whatever.

AS: Like a flyer, you know, not all over the place. Two or three.

Brando: Just wanted to know the level of [?] at the time.

[...]

AS: One thing about him, he was very familiar with all kinds of music. You know, the glam from the 70s, he knew gothic music like Bauhaus, you know, that was kind of in the age he was coming up. They wore a lot of makeup. And you know, he looked like he was gonna dabble with that as well, if that's what it took, you know. He could go normal or he could be this glam image type of guy, which, let's face it, I mean in LA at the time, not anymore, but at the time, if you wore makeup, you know, look at Motley Crue, if you wore makeup and you look convincing enough, you could draw a bunch of girls. And if you draw girls, then guys are gonna be there. And next, you know, you have a crowd. And then from then on, record labels get interest, then you have a career. So everybody was trying to do that. And that's why they passed out flyers. And that's what Motley Crue did. Motley Crue drew big crowds in '81 before even MTV, they were huge. And there was no doubt, there is no way this isn't going to succeed because people love them and we were all trying to do the same thing, kind of going, you know, that's what translate into success, we gotta get out there with flyers and we gotta draw. You know, some bands could draw big, some didn't, obviously. You know, when I saw Poison, they were, they worked like maniacs, passing those flyer all the time, constantly, and it worked. Although a lot of people were like, you know, "This band is terrible," but it was full of girls and, you know, it worked. It became a top drawing act and they got, I think, an independent deal with the same label the Shire was on, Enigma Records. Apparently this record costs only, I'm not sure, but it cost only $25,000 to make and sold two and a half million records. So you know, you can say to some people, "Oh, they suck," but if they work hard, you know, it's not like somebody handed it to them. You know what I'm saying, let the people decide. You know, let the people decide.

[...]

Brando: So then, was that your last interaction, because that was the last interaction with Izzy.

AS: Yes.

Brando: So what was your last interaction with Axl?

AS: The last interaction-

Brando: Or was that it?

AS: No, no, no. When Guns N' Roses started picking up steam in 1986, Izzy was like, you see him on stage but he was nowhere to be seen. Axl went out a lot. He supported other local bands and he would get up on stage with them and sing songs with them.That's right. And Shire had dissipated at this point. So dissolved. Everybody was doing other things. I was working at a very trendy LA street called Melrose Ave. You might have heard of that. A lot of musicians worked there during the day, in clothing stores or whatever, and a lot of people went on Melrose on the weekend [...].

AS [...] one of the shows I was playing and I see Axl in the crowd dancing and he comes up to me after he goes, "I can't wait to tell Izzy that you're in the coolest band in LA." "Thanks, man, cool." And we've seen him another time after that. I thought, "Well, Axl gets on stage with everybody, I'm gonna ask him if he wants to sing with us." And we're doing a Ramones cover again and we're like, "Axl, do you wanna sing with us?" He's going, "Yeah, how does that go again? 'You sitting here on 5th Ave. eat chicken vindaloo'?" So he knew the lyrics already. So we got on stage, we get to the last song, we're like, "OK, we have a special guest tonight," and he's gone. So we're like, "OK, oh yeah."

[laughs]

Someone: And you never get to talk to him about that afterwards?

AS: Never saw him again.

Someone: Wow, that's typical Axl. Oh my God, that is really funny.

AS: Actually, in 1990, fours years later, I ended up being in the band with his brother-in-law.

Someone: With Axl's brother-in-law?

AS: His brother-in-law.  Axl was married, I think for one day or a week, to Erin Everly, the daughter of one of The Everly Brothers. And she had a younger brother named Eden who had connections, you know, beyond the son of one of The Everly Brothers, people were interested in what he was into. And he happened to look great. His music was in the vein of Black Crowes, that style.

[...]

AS: And his sister was actually with Axl. I never got any contact with him, but there was a rumor around, we had to deal with [?] Records, there was a rumor, because to the connection of the sister, that we could be the opening act on the Use Your Illusion tour, which would have been a career maker of course. You know, with my luck that I've had throughout my life, as soon as we heard this rumor, a week later he was divorced from her. So that put that kibosh on that.

[...]

Brando: Who else have you met in the camp that you, or possibly even worked with?

AS: Never met Duff McKagan. I never met, ironically, weird, I never met Slash. I've seen him play in a band in '81 where he was, I think it was Tidus Sloan. He was at a party and they were doing heavy metal covers with no vocals, no vocalist. It was only instruments. So I thought, you know, "This guy plays good, but with no singer nothing's gonna happen." Previously to that, this is a weird story, my dad has sent me, 1979, to a music school. There was a little tiny shack on Fairfax Ave, Santa Monica, I used to go take guitar lessons once a week and I would see Slash-

Someone: Fairfax Ave, right?

AS: I saw Slash and Steven Adler were going to the same school, so I asked my teacher, "I can't find anybody to be in a band with, what about those two?" And he goes, "Oh, that's Saul and Steven, you don't want to be with those kids, they're crazy."

[...]

John: Johnny Kreis, who was the first Hollywood Rose drummer, was the drummer in Shire when Izzy was there. Was it the whole time that Izzy was there or-

AS: He was there the whole time.

John: OK. And then his departure mean, I mean, did he play in both bands at the same time or-

AS: Both hands at the same time.

Brando: So then, did you have like odd jobs and just things of support?

AS: I was working on Melrose.

John: What about the the video store job?

AS: Oh, I never touched on that, in '84 I worked at Tower Video with Axl.

John: Axl managed Tower Video.

AS: He became the manager eventually.

Brando: Do we know this, is that is that a thing-

John: I don't know if we've discussed it here.

Brando: Did you know this before?

John: Yeah. He talked about it when he went on Jimmy Kimmel.

Brando: OK, maybe I missed that part then.

John: He didn't force people to rewind their tapes when they drop. He said he was very lenient with his staff.

[...]

Brando: So he was your manager?

AS: No, no, he hadn't not been promoted yet. He was a clerk like me. [...] And I would work there the evening shift and there was Axl. That's when I got to really know him. Like he told me some stories. We spent two days trying to reconcile empty video boxes with their proper videos, down in the basement, and he was talking about his growing up and his influences. And one day he said, "I really hate my voice, but I have to admit it's starting to get better." That's what we said. It was interesting because, you know, two years later he was gonna be in like the the most popular band in LA, you know.

Brando: That he hated his voice.

AS: He said that.

Brando: OK, so anything else, any other stories, cuz you mentioned like his growing up, did he, like, open up to you, like-

AS: Oh yeah. What he said, he got in a lot of trouble and he said that he'd been back to Indiana and I remember this expression that him and his friend were hitchhiking and then some farmer was peppered them. Which means, put rocks in the shotgun and shot at them.

Brando: Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay.

AS: And I remember that. I remember him saying lyrics in heavy metal in the early 80s, he said they had become not too significant anymore and he wanted his lyrics to be more, you know. Which, yes, you can tell, they are. And a lot lyrics in heavy metal [?] about Dungeons and Dragons or about getting laid, you know. And the music was good, but the lyrics, not. You wouldn't just read them.

Brando: Right. No, I love Ronnie James Dio. But I mean yeah-

AS: It's all about the night and the fire.

Brando: Yeah, which is great but yes, yes, I totally get it.

AS: And he mentioned he liked Patty Smith a lot, punk, poet and singer. And he even liked Born to Run by Bruce Springsteen, which I was like, "Come on man!" and he goes, "No, no," he said to me, "but to people like me, that song really means something."

Brando: What about movies?

AS: [...] He loved Scarface. He told me, "Look at that movie, man, that guy never took any shit from anybody." And I was like, "Yeah, you're right." And he loved Terminator. He was like, "You can't stop that guy. Couldn't stop him." And check this out, he got ahold of a bootleg copy somehow of Prince Purple Rain. And we went to Raz's apartment and watched it. And he was totally into that movie. He kept saying to me, "Look what he's about to do. Look at his moves," you know, he was totally into it.

Someone: You can see all the influences of everything you're mentioning. Scarface [?]. You can just kind of see Axl, those influences in him a little.

AS: One movie he really liked, this is odd but, a remake of the French New Wave classic Breathless with Richard Gere, and the movie had bombed. But he really liked that to the point when customers come to Tower Video and say, "Boy, that movie is the worst," and he'd go, "Yeah to you." yeah.

[laughs]

John: That's great. This is after recommending the movie to them or something?

AS: No. People will come in now and then, they talk about movies and he was the kind that would not take shit.

Finished this but only included the parts relevant to the story of GN'R.

Oh fuck I can't believe that Axl guested on these guys show and sang my favorite Ramones song with them!