2019.07.29 - Riki Rachtman's Cathouse Hollywood Podcast - Interview with Tracii

Riki Rachtman is joined with Tracii Guns. The two LA Natives share tales back from the time the two were reckless Hollywood punks to when Tracii started a band called Guns n Roses. Why did Tracii quit Guns n Roses to start his own band L.A.Guns? Was the "Dirt" accurate in it's description of Motley Crue's first show. What was Hollywood really like? What was Cathouse really like? Tracii was there and he takes you back there with him. Tracii also answers some of your questions left on the Cathouse Hollywood Facebook page



Tracii Guns: Hey, this is Tracii Guns and I'm on the Cathouse Hollywood Podcast with Riki Rachtman, my very dear old friend. We're vintage now and we love you all as Ozzy would always say.

Riki Rachtman: Coming to you from the Cathouse South Studios in Race City, USA, this is the sweet 16th episode of the Cathouse Hollywood Podcast. I am Riki Rachtman. How you doing? You all right? Good. The 16th episode. You know, I remember being 16 years old. I remember being 16 years old. Okay, I don't really remember that much, but I know in addition to my hard rock and heavy metal like Nugent, I also like bands like Devo. And even back then, I liked roots rock and roll like Eddie Cochran, Gene Benson, Elvis of course. I still do. In the 80s, I used to wonder, what was it like 30 years ago? What was it like in 1957? Of course my mind would wander and for some reason I picture everything actually being in black and white back then. The guys with the slick back hair, the girls in the tight Angora sweaters, rushing to the record store to buy the jailhouse rock single from Elvis or that'll be the day by the crickets. Trying to fathom what it would be like to go to a rock and roll show. Of course those had to be innocent back then, right? I doubt there was sex in the coat closet after all. It was our parents that were at those shows. When you were in the eighties, you would look back 30 years to the fifties. When I was in the eighties, the fifties seemed like another time, another dimension. It was a theme park of another reality. Coke in a bottle, cool hot rods, and rock and roll. It was 30 years ago. It couldn't have been anything like the world that I was living in. I could not relate. 1986 was when I opened the nightclub, the Cathouse. That was 33 years ago from today. 33 years ago to me, when I look back, I had made it was a different time. It was far from innocent. It was borderline of being perverse. We all had the, we want the world and we want it now. So let's grab it. However, it doesn't seem as foreign as the fifties did. When I was in the eighties, that's because I lived in the eighties. I'm just curious what 18 year olds today think about the eighties rock scene. Do they look back at it with the same bewilderment and fascination that I had for the fifties? I guess it was different. And every time I do this show, I feel weird knowing that this is nostalgia. This is a look back. I don't want to think that the Cathouse Hollywood podcast is just this period piece of an era still when I look at the analytics of the show, it is really cool to see so many listeners of this show are under the age of 21. I really wonder what teenagers think the eighties rock scene was really like. I hope this show takes them there. I hope this show takes you there. Yeah, we had a lot of struggles and we suffered pain and loss and desperation. We also fought tooth and nail. But still, even though there was like competition back then, our Hollywood clique was a community. We had our hustle and many of us dug in deep, stuck to our guns. And this lifestyle paid off. Few of the key players in the Hollywood rock scene were originally from Los Angeles. I can say that I was so was Tracii Richard Irving Ulrich, better known as Tracii Guns. We're both products of growing up in Los Angeles. Tracii played in bands like Killing Machine, Contraband and Brides of Destruction, which he formed in 2001 with Nikki Sixx. He also helped put together the band Guns N' Roses, but that was short lived. And he stuck to his guns in a band. He still plays with to this day, LA Guns. Their first record was released in 1988 and the last one only a few months ago. Tracii and I, we go back a long way. And in this edition of the Cathouse Hollywood Podcast, we're going to bring you back with us. Let's go back. Let's go way back. Back when we were just kids. Let's go back even further. How about 1982? 1982 the Academy Awards, of course, are in Los Angeles and Chariots of Fire just won the best picture It ended up with four Oscars but so did Raiders of the Lost Ark. That year a few people were starting to buy their first home computer, the big ol' Commodore 64. Tracii Guns was in Los Angeles and in 82 I was living in the Hollywood Hills with my dad, but right over the hill where I grew up was a San Fernando Valley and the big craze at that time was talking like a valley girl. Girls from the Valley were called Valley Girls. Matter of fact, Moon Zappa, Frank Zappa's daughter even had a song called Valley Girls that was a hit. The Valley Girls said stuff like, well they said stuff like like, as if, gruddy, for sure. Are you serious? Those girls really didn't want much to do with us bad rocker types and speaking of rock and roll in 82, Dio had just gone solo and released Holy Diver. Spinal Tap was born and I actually saw the band play before the movie came out. It was at the Music Machine in Santa Monica. In 82, Metallica left Los Angeles to become a Bay Area band and the guitarist that I had seen play with the band Quiet Riot had gotten a lot of notoriety as a guitarist for Ozzy. His name was Randy Rhodes. In 82, he was killed in an airplane crash. So in 82, this is four years before the Cathouse even opened. I wasn't part of the rock scene and neither was Tracii Guns. But we were all going to become a big part of it through sleaze and debauchery and raunch and roll. Oh, you're coming with us. This is episode 16. Sweet 16 of the Cathouse Hollywood Podcast.

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Riki: Episode 16 of the Cat House Hollywood podcast is made possible by the good people at Law Tigers, Motorcycle Attorneys, and Blue Chew. You know what they do, right? Listen up, because later I'm going to tell you how you can get your first shipment from Blue Chew for free. And of course, the show is made possible by the Cathouse Hollywood website, the only place you can get Cat House shirts, Cat House hats, even Headbanger's ball shirts. So buy some cool stuff right now or as soon as this podcast is done. Hollywood.com because it supports this podcast. And now it is episode 16 of the Cathouse Hollywood Podcast with Tracii Guns.

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Riki: So Tracii, you grew up in Los Angeles, went to high school, junior high school, elementary school, you went to Fairfax High?

Tracii: I went to French nursery school on Fountain.

Riki: Wait, was it called French nursery school?

Tracii: That's what it was called, French nursery school. So I was born at Cedars of Lebanon, which is now the Scientology headquarters building on Fountain. Then I went to French nursery school. Then I went to Alexandria elementary school. Then I went to Hancock Park Elementary School.

Riki: Did you move or did you get thrown out of different schools?

Tracii: No, I didn't get thrown out anywhere. We moved a lot. You know, we moved like one mile away like every time.

Riki: But you stayed, now Fairfax High was your high school.

Tracii: That was my high school, yeah.

Riki: How many musicians went to Fairfax High?

Tracii: There was quite a few. There was there was a few before I went there too, like the Chili Peppers guys that just bailed when we got there. But when I was there, it was me and Slash, and a kid named Marlon that we also went to junior high school with, and Philip Davidson. These are all guitar players. And that's where I met Rob Gardner, who was my drummer forever in the original LA Guns and Pyrrhus and Guns N' Roses, and Danny Tull who was a bass player. I met him at summer camp when I was six years old.

Riki: Are these guys that I should be nodding because I should be knowing who they are?

Tracii: Well, Danny was just my buddy. He was the guy I kind of grew up learning how to play music with. But Rob Gardner was the original Guns N' Roses and LA Guns drummer.

Riki: So tell me to go back to high school, you're going to Fairfax High, Slash goes your high school. You guys meet in high school?

Tracii: No, no, we knew each other since we were 11. We met each other just skateboarding at Laurel Avenue Elementary School. And that's how we became friends.

Riki: How many great things came together because of skateboarding?

Tracii: Oh man, a lot. A lot. Yes.

Riki: As a matter of fact, if you grew up in that time and you didn't have some sort of tie-in with the skateboard world, I don't know if you even want to talk to those.

Tracii: Well, even before that was really BMX, I guess. You know, so actually, I think, you know what, Slash and I, we were BMX guys before we were skateboard guys. Yeah, so we and our girlfriends were best friends too for years.

Riki: Who was better at BMX?

Tracii: Better?

Riki: I know you were a better skater. You kept skating.

Tracii: Yeah, I kept skating but you know, I wasn't never a very good skater. We skated together all the time me and you. I think I was at one time, but then I got fearful when I fell at Skate Lab on my 40th birthday and I think that was the end of it.

Riki: It hurts when you fall.

Tracii: Yeah, it really hurts.

Riki: When you're like you're 17 and you fall skateboarding, it's okay. When you're hurting, you're older, it just hurts.

Tracii: Oh man, I got a hip pointer and tweaked my wrist. But surfing, you know, I started surfing when I was really young, when I was like six. Same time I started playing guitar. And surfing was great except it just became a pain in the ass. You know what I mean? Just to like put the board in the car.

Riki: Definitely different hours.

Tracii: Different hours. We were doing-

Riki: Rock and roll you're coming home when you're just driving-

Tracii: Yeah, when you should be going to the beach, yeah exactly so. Yeah, I had a normal SoCal upbringing, so did you.

Riki: So when you grew up in high school LA was a definitely a different place because there's not a lot of us that really grew up in Los Angeles. Like do you remember the Beverly Center when that amusement park was oh?

Tracii: Yeah, I had my seventh birthday there. That was that was Kitty Land. Kitty Land and it had the big oil derrick. You know, I always remember that, then they tore it down [?]

Riki: -but they tore down the amusement park, which is for people that don't know this, is like right where Cedars and the Beverly Center.

Tracii: Oh, yeah.

Riki: Yeah, they got rid of it for the Beverly-

Tracii: And Tale of the Pop, right all that stuff was right there.

Riki: So do you remember your first time ever going on the Sunset Strip as a kid?

Tracii: Well, you know a lot of people don't include Santa Monica Boulevard in the Sunset Strip but it was part of it really you know the Troubadour and the Starwood and the first place I ever went and I do remember I saw White Sister and Wizard at the Troubadour when I was 15 just because I knew that somehow I had to see live music you know and so that was a Thursday night I remember. And so I would go on Thursday nights and then I went and saw, I tried to see the Germs and the Weirdos at Starwood, but it was too crowded and-

Riki: I was there.

Tracii: I'm sure you were. And whoever was working the door knew that I was like 12. You know what I mean? So I never, I got in a couple of times, but it was, it was very short lived and I would get in there.

Riki: Which is bizarre. But maybe I'm going to be the only person that does this segue. You went to see the Germs and the Weirdos. When I think of LA Guns and I think of other members of LA Guns, I think of the drummer of LA Guns being Nicky Beat.

Tracii: Oh, absolutely.

Riki: Nicky Alexander. A lot of people don't know LA Guns. Was he the one? He played on the first record?

Tracii: Yeah, he played on the first record.

Riki: But he was like in a lot of the LA punk rock bands. So me coming from there thought, "Wow, they got this guy from old punk rock bands to play drum in LA Guns."

Tracii: Well actually, you know, we started that version of LA Guns because that was right after I was out of Guns N' Roses and Nicky actually auditioned for Guns N' Roses and I told him, I go, "You're not really right for this man but if I do something else, I want to do it with you." Because I just loved him, he was such a cool guy. And then that's how we ended up starting LA Guns together, was with Nicky.

Riki: See, this is what I try to tell people in this podcast, because a lot of people think of the Sunset Strip rock scene, and I've explained it so many times, the point of everybody's sick of hearing me say it, but the Cathouse scene, which selfishly I call it the Cathouse scene. A lot of it came from punk rock roots.

Tracii: Oh, big time. Well, yeah, the real LA punk rock roots, and also whatever we considered alternative at that time, you know what I mean? Which was like Jane's Addiction and all those guys, Experimenting Specimen, you know, Alien Sex Fiends, you know, I remember meeting all those people at Cathouse when you first started. Gene Loves Jezebel, you know, so much stuff. You know, so The Cult was very popular before they had a big album out, you know, stuff like that. And that was our scene, right? You know, in LA Guns, we were kind of a cross between, you know, Jane's Addiction, the Germs and Ozzy. You know what I mean? It was like all the stuff that was happening in LA, you know, and Cathouse was definitely the solidifier for making that okay, you know what I mean? So we weren't really much of a Gazzari's band, but we were definitely a Cathouse band.

Riki: But as you got bigger pretty soon, you had to be playing the Sunset Strip. But I remember seeing LA Guns opening up for Johnny Thunders.

Tracii: Oh yeah, yeah.

Riki: I remember that show at the Roxy, I think it was.

Tracii: Yeah, and then I got to play with him the next night at Fender's. Yeah, we really were part of a different scene. And then when we started being popular on our own, then we got more defined. You know, it was easier to tell what the audience wanted, you know, what side of the band, and that was hard-hitting, you know, fast metal, I guess.

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Riki: Now travel back with me into the Cathouse Hollywood Podcast, because we're going way back right now with Tracii Guns. Let's go back to the Guns N' Roses days. Did you feel that there was something like about Axl and you and members of the band like, "You know, we're not going to be just a garage band."

Tracii: Oh man yeah.

Riki: Now you could really tell?

Tracii: Oh I could really tell.

Riki: What was it?

Tracii: Well you know, I mean, Izzy gets so much credit for the vibe of the band and he really deserves that credit you know because he was like a barometer, you know, like you couldn't go too much to the left or he'd give you a look, you couldn't go too much to the right, he'd give you a look like, "Hey," you know, "just be cool, man." You know, and Axl would probably say the same thing that, you know, you didn't really want to do anything that wasn't Izzy approved in some some strange way, you know, but he was the guy that, you know, could play the least, you know, but he was definitely the coolest, you know. So I knew, you know what I mean? We were very organized and we've really sounded great, you know what I mean and the tunes were there and the attitude was there, like we were professional, you know, we really were. You know, Axl was very professional, Izzy was very professional, and by the time Ole and Rob left in the and we got Adler and Duff. You know, Adler had already played in Hollywood Rose with Axl and Izzy, you know, so he knew he couldn't be a butt head coming in. You know, they had already been like, like, "Hey," because I remember when Axl and I just decided let's get Steven, Izzy was still like, "No, man, no," we're like, "Yeah, he's the right guy," you know, "we're gonna get him," and we got him and-

Riki: How old are you guys at this time?

Tracii: I was nineteen, you know, when I left I was nineteen so i figure I must have been nineteen because I was only in the in the Guns N' Roses brand name for about nine months, you know. I think I went to like four or five shows. But in that time, man, we made some noise. It was very obvious because I could tell how popular he was getting because we would play less music and Axl would talk more in our shows [laughs]. He had more to say. You know what I mean? "I want to thank that guy," and, "Fuck that guy. Fuck you. You motherfucked me." So I knew that it was coming. You know what I mean?

Riki: Before we go into the LA Guns thing, there's something that you're gonna help me because as I've said on this show, and just tell me when you gotta wrap it up. There's things that I'll tell stories on the show, but my memories are so messed up and-

Tracii: That's because you're vintage.

Riki: Are we retro or vintage? Or old? Yeah, but let's be honest, okay. Did we think we'd be having this conversation in the eighties?

Tracii: I guess we-

Riki: -we thought that far ahead.

Tracii: I mean, I can answer that question with another question that I was asked when we first got signed. Bob Scoro looked at everybody in the band, the guy that signed us, and he said, you know, "What do you want? What do you hope to get out of this?" And I remember, I was 20, just about to turn 21, and I told him, I go, "I just want to do this forever." Like that, I said, "I'll do whatever I have to do to make it so I can do this forever." And so this was always my goal. It was always my goal to be sitting here with a best friend that I've known for 30 years talking about how we started, what we did. Yeah, why not?

Riki: So this is what I want to clear up. I'm going to go all over the place.

Tracii: Good.

Riki: I went in The Dirt, which was kind of entertaining. I had always thought, wait a minute, that was Motley Crue's first show at the Starwood. And Motley Crue's first show had people and there wasn't a fist fight at Motley Crue's first show. So that's what I said on my podcast. I have no problem being wrong and being corrected. So you know the true story.

Tracii: Well, yeah, because when I discovered Motley Crue, it wasn't because I discovered London first. You know what I mean? And there was Danny Tull, the guy that I mentioned earlier, he brought like a flyer to Fairfax High School when we were in 10th grade. It was a Motley Crue flyer at Pookie's Ice Cream Parlor or Sandwich Shop. It was one or the other. And I was like, and I remember seeing the picture of the band go, "Man," you know, "whoa, are they punk rock or metal?" You couldn't tell. That's what was cool about them. Like in a photo, like, "Are they drag queens? Are they metal? Are they?" you know, like whatever it is, I like it. Right. I remember. And my friend Danny was like, "Yeah, they're really cool." But at that time we were 15 and we couldn't drive to Pasadena. So in The Dirt, that first thing that you're seeing is them playing at Pookie's. You know, that's like their first weird gig in Pasadena. And it's very accurate from what I remember word of mouth being about that first show. And then there-

Riki: I think it would have been so much better if they showed their first show not being at the Starwood or at the Troubadour and showed them playing Pookie.

[cut part about Motley Crue]

Riki: Okay, now I'm going to ask you the question that I have asked all the other three bands that performed, and let's see if you can answer. The Cathouse was a rock and roll dance club when it opened at Osco's and I know because you were there since day one. The first live show we ever had there was in the Christmas party for Guns N' Roses record house party of Live Like A Suicide and on that flyer it says - which are the bands that I call the big four of that era - which was Guns N' Roses, LA Guns, Faster Pussycat - who would you say the fourth was? That's not the question cuz I tell you-

Tracii: At the time I would think Jet Boy.

Riki: Exactly. Even though they were a San Francisco band. [?] who I call the big four. Now, on that flyer it said "Special guests", not that those four bands wouldn't be good enough. I've asked everybody that was at that show, do they remember any special guests or do you remember the show at all? It was unplugged, before it was called unplugged, before MTV did unplugged. We did acoustic with Guns N' Roses, Faster Pussycat, LA Guns and Jet Boy. I don't remember anything of that day cuz that's when I was still drinking.

Tracii: Right. Well, you remember Dusty?

Riki: Yes, I remember that guy.

Tracii: Dusty was there.

Riki: But he was like a bartender.

Tracii: Yeah, but he played acoustic guitar.

Riki: Yeah, but he wouldn't have been a special guest when you mentioned these other bands.

Tracii: Oh, a special guest. Special guest. Man, you know, it could have been a few people, but I couldn't tell you for sure.

Riki: I can't remember that either. I can't remember a lot. Those were decadent times.

Tracii: Oh yeah.

Riki: Like very dangerous, decadent, sleazy. Like when you look back at it, it's a time that when people ask why I can't bring the club back, you could not duplicate this time. So what are some of your best memories from the Cathouse?

Tracii: Well first of all, sex couldn't kill you then. You know what I mean? That was pre-AIDS and everybody was still reading stories about Led Zeppelin and Aerosmith on tour, you know, and so did the women. You know what I mean? So it was an extension of the free love and cocaine of the 70s really. And you know, every new generation maximizes what the last did. And proud to say we were the last generation of maximizing sex, drugs and rock and roll. There's no doubt about it. And you know, I've been in touch with a lot of the women from our scene, the Pam Jackson's, and you know stuff like that, everybody ended up all right, you know what I mean? Which now you look back at those times and it seems so disgusting, like, you mean, "You would take women in the bathroom and have sex with them?" "Yeah, all the time," but it was never forcing.

Riki: No, no, no, never.

Tracii: It was always consenting. And women got what they wanted and some guys got what they wanted, except I'm sure sometimes there were some hurt feelings along the way.

Riki: Yeah, yeah, you know-

Tracii: Did you ever have sex in the bathroom at the Cathouse?

Riki: Yes. I'm not gonna lie. What's the point of lying? It was Bordello, actually.

Tracii: You know what, we don't talk about Bordello but a lot of people, like we have some great stories about the bar at Bordello and having sex in the bathroom.

Riki: Yeah, that happened.

Tracii: It was that like little private area.

Riki: Now, I mean, you know, I was like 20. Why not?

Tracii: You're young, you're in a band, you're selling records, there's beautiful women. And it was. It was a time of decadence.

Riki: It was. It was very decadent and very commonplace. It wasn't shocking. Nobody did anything shocking. Everything was just like, okay, cool. I've been to a few things [laughs]. Were there any performances at the Cathouse that you remember that stand out, that you remember seeing?

Tracii: You're going to think this is funny. Yeah, I mean a lot. A lot. I mean I think even Danzig[?] played there. You know, I mean a lot of the stuff that I liked played there. But the one that sticks out to me, you're going to love this story because it was toward the end of the era. Right. Flea just gets back from Japan and he calls me up and he still didn't have a car and he goes. He goes, "Hey, can you take me to Cathouse tonight?" I'm like, "Yeah, why?" "Primus is playing." I'm like, "Ah, okay." I go, "Yeah, yeah, I'll come get you." And I go, "Well, I'm going with this chick Alicia anyways. Do you mind if her friend Cami comes along?" He's like, "Wait a minute, are those two kinda like redheads?" I'm like, "Yeah." He goes, "Oh yeah, yeah, would you introduce?" And I'm like, "Yeah, of course, man." So we meet them there. I didn't pick them up. We met them there. And it wasn't packed. You know, that was really wild-

Riki: I remember the Primus show because I think that was when I was doing Headbanger's Ball.

Tracii: Right. It was like a transitional period. But Primus was playing. There was a lot of people there. But the second bar downstairs wasn't packed. So I'm just hanging out with Flea and he's like, "Man," you know, "you guys are really big in Japan." I go, "Well, we're not that big." He goes, "I saw you everywhere." I go, "Well, you know, press is big." But I go, "You know, we do the same things you guys do." And they hadn't exploded yet. Mother's Milk hadn't come out yet. So we were still, you know, on equal footing, I guess, and hanging out, having a great time. And that, but the Primus was fantastic. And, you know, I got to thank Flea for that because I never really paid attention to them yet. You know, and he's like, "Oh, you got to see this guy, Les Claypool, man. And you'll love the drummer. He's like John Bonham, kind of," you know, I'm like, "OK, cool." So we went and just floored me to the point where Flea was there to see Primus, I was there to see Alicia. I think that was her name. I don't remember anymore. And I ended up staring at Primus and he ended up staring at Cami like it was a total roller burst. I was just so impressed. And then they were done and Flea was like, "Hey," you know, "we should go somewhere else now." And I'm like, "We go to Canter's." You know what I mean? What else could you do, you know, Okie Dogs wasn't in fashion anymore, really.

Riki: Canter's was the deli that we all went to. Not only was it a good deli, but it was Mark Canter.

Tracii: It was Mark Canter.

Riki: Who was friends with everybody.

Tracii: Yeah, we all went to school with him. So after that show, that might have been the last time I saw a performance at Cathouse, too. And then we went to Canter's. And I just never forget how shy Flea was around this girl, who was so obnoxious. You know, and he just was smitten by her. You know? But that was probably the last time I was there and that was probably the most blown away I'd been by a rock band because they were different, they were so different than everybody else, but I mean, one of my favorite things was playing there was when you and I played there with Piercy and Tami.

Riki: Which I wanna talk about. Back then, it was a community. There was not only the club, and this was a time when everybody was getting record deals, people were selling records, there were softball games, some people were high in the park. Did you do the softball games too?

Tracii: No, I'm scared of the [?].

Riki: Yeah, I wasn't really big into that. A couple times I rented a bus and we'd have a picnic at the park. You remember that?

Tracii: I remember.

Riki: You were there, there was a monkey.

Tracii: I think I drove, though.

Riki: Cooper told me the story There was a monkey and all sorts of but there was a community and we do things.

Tracii: Absolutely.

Riki: Everybody would support each other and even though there was a little bit of competition because everybody was selling records.

Tracii: Healthy competition.

Riki: Healthy competition, exactly. But we came up with this idea pig that we'll say whatever it was Anyway, I could find a way to sing in a band right I would put it I would get all my friends who were luckily big rock stars.

[cut some anecdotes]

Riki: And some of you knew Tracii Guns was going to be on episode 16. So you asked some questions for Tracii Guns and here they are. Nat Machetta says, can you ask him if anything they miss about the 80s or that era and if you have any cool Cathouse stories. What do you miss about the 80s era? That's from Nat.

Tracii: Well, I miss being really skinny. I mean, you know, that was cool. What do I miss about? I mean. the thing that you miss about a time like that is a few things that you already mentioned, you know, the camaraderie, the energy of, you know, Cathouse, Roxy, Whiskey, Rainbow, Troubadour, you know, all the guys from out of town with the blonde hair and spandex handing out flyers, you know, the women. I mean, I don't miss the women, but back then it was a different thing. You know, it was incredible if you were-

Riki: There was a quantity of quality.

Tracii: There was, there was a quantity of quality and understanding. And there wasn't a big jealousy trip with anybody back then, you know, and, you know, every girl dated every guy in our circle and the girls circle, you know what I mean? Is this kind of, that's just the way it was. I mean, so in a way, it was, you know, if we're talking about 2019 now, things are way more uptight, a hundred fold than they were at that time where, you know, there was racial division then too. There was economic division then too. But it pales in comparison to how backwards we've gone now. So basically what I'm saying is the amount of freedom you had as an individual to be yourself and to, you know. Could you imagine guys walking into you know Galsons[?] now with stiletto heals on and lipstick and leather jackets? And it almost, it would be shocking now.

Riki: It's more uptight now.

Tracii: Then it wasn't shocking.

Riki: Now, that's just what people look like. Jeff Pez says, what was the reason you left LA Guns and what songs if any were they playing when you were in Guns N' Roses that ended up on Appetite?

Tracii: I guess Think About You. Shadow of Your Love wasn't on Appetite, but I was playing that. What's that? Anything Goes. There's a few.

Riki: And Jeff wants to know why you left Guns N' Roses.

Tracii: It was time. It was time for me to go. I was not as mature as the rest of the fellows in the band. It was my final conclusion. You know, they were more worldly, more open-minded to, you know-

Riki: But were you kind of, you weren't like in a show when you grew up though, right?

Tracii: No, but I also was a source of, you know, shelter for those guys, you know, for Axl and Izzy. Because you know they've really taken a chance and they moved away from home. You know what I mean? And that was my home. That was the biggest difference is that those guys were more in survival mode.

Riki: -And you were home.

Tracii: And I was home. You know and so Axl and I had been through a lot together. Izzy and I had been through a lot together too but in a more a less emotional way. Where Axl and I had a very emotional, we were tight, we were best friends. You know we had a Valentine's day where we both got stood up by our girlfriends that were for... You know I mean, like, we went to shit together. And at the end of the day he was getting... his behavior was... to be honest he was scaring the shit out of me. You know, and I just as a friend, he wasn't being friendly to anybody and you know at nineteen years old, you know, I wasn't prepared for whatever was gonna happen in the next few years with those guys. And what did happen with those guys, which is an interesting balance of life, you know, that you have an incredible amount of success. And I doubt that any of them really remember it, you know, because there was so much going on personally within each guy, you know, bouts of depression, manic depression, anxiety, nervousness, alcoholism, drug abuse, drug addiction, resentments, you know, early resentments between band members, you know, things like that, which is like, normally I have zero foresight. You know, it's just, I kind of just like fly by the seat of my pants kind of guy. But after, you know, being with those guys, you know, playing music or in Guns N' Roses, either way, after two years, I could see that it wasn't going in a... the house wasn't going to be settled down. The success was not going to make us better friends. I play music because I love playing music and it's always best when I'm really excited about the people I play with. I felt that I had done my time with those guys. Not one regret, man. It was one of the huge chapter in my life and it produced one of the greatest, you know, whatever the internal part was doesn't matter to the rest of the world because the rest of the world got the great music, you know, and almost really the changing of the guard for rock, you know. So it was a beautiful thing all the way around, it really was.

Riki: Ray Leslie, and I try not to make these interviews, but these are sort of interview questions because me and Tracii have conversations. Are LA Guns planning a UK tour, maybe throwing a couple of Scottish dates?

[cut part about LA Guns' touring]

Riki: Tell me what you had to do back then because you didn't have social media. You didn't have Facebook. So in order to make a band work back then-

Tracii: Well, you had to be better, you know what I mean. You had to be worthy of people's you know five dollars or-

Riki: Flyers were very important.

Tracii: Oh yeah, I mean that's how you marketed yourself, definitely, was was the flyering thing.

Riki: Did you pass out flyers yourself?

Tracii: Sometimes, not very often. I mean, even in Guns N' Roses we did the flyer thing but we didn't canvas anything.

Riki: Did you use to get girls to flyer for you?

Tracii: Girls did stuff for us. It wasn't like, Poison had a really good marketing plan. You know what I mean? Like they really flyered the thing and it really, really helped them. But for us we were lucky because we were really part of that scene and the scene is what generated the audience, meaning that If we were hanging out at the Scream Club, later on Cathouse Club, Lipstick Fixx, Roggie's, you know all these kind of underground things which was part of the water buffaloes - I don't know if you remember the water buffaloes?

Riki: That was Mark Rude?

Tracii: It was Mark Rude. Mark Rude and Nikki B, and you know, guys like that. They were the punk rock guys that had aged a little bit and now they had the water buffaloes. LA Guns was part of the water buffaloes, part of the, you know, like I said earlier, Alien Sex Fiend, you know, Specimen, you know, Barbie, you know, all those bands. So being scenesters was more important than handing out flyers, you know, because we were good guys. People liked us, including the Guns N' Roses guys, you know, we were out and about hanging out with people. And the perception was that we were great.

Riki: It was sort of like, for instance, when Motley Crue played, it wasn't, "Let's go hear their music." It was like, "Let's check out Nikki's new band." So yeah, "Tracii's got a band." I mean, I played in a band for a short time called Virgin. God knows people didn't go see us because of our music being good. They wanted to go see Ricky and also Jim that was in Barbie and stuff like that in our band.

Tracii: That's right. And that is a very important thing to remember that, and this is where a lot of bands fail from the start, is, yes, you want to be great musically, but you got to be special. Being special and having character and personality is the only thing that's going to get you noticed. Most people that can play an instrument are pretty damn good. And some of the ones that are amazing and famous still can't pay the rent. So it's not about only like what we are a rock star. You have to be an interesting person. You know what I mean? And that's what really translates and transcends eras.

Riki: You know, you can't fake being special. This has been a very special conversation.

Is it possible to get the transcript off of this easily? If I could download the video I could use Riverside.fm to transcribe, or if I could find the video on Vimeo I might be able to extract the subtitles that are already there. But I can do neither.

Fixed it.

Arranged this in proper quotes.